Ep. 379 I Gotta Keep Something Nasty with Mandii B & WeezyWTF

Written By Wy'Kia Frelot

Mandii B and WeezyWTF, the co-hosts of the Decisions, Decisions podcast, join us today to discuss their New York Times Best-selling book, No Holes Barred: A Dual Manifesto of Sexual Exploration and Power. They talk about the challenges of staying sex positive while writing about their own shame and which parts of the book they were most nervous about having published. We also talk about how the changing political landscape has impacted the kinds of conversations they have around sex.

The Stacks Book Club pick for July is God Help the Child by Toni Morrison. We will discuss on Wednesday, June 30th with Dana A. Williams.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

To support The Stacks and find out more from this week’s sponsors, click here.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

WeezyWTF 0:00

It really shows you how the journey is not alone, like we really do need friendship in order to get over and get under someone. I talk about the devil on your shoulder and the angel on your shoulder like we need that friend to champion us, to help us, you know, get through what we may be confused about within ourselves, because a lot of times when we're meeting women, we were the first time they had a friend that could hold her hand and say, Yes, do it, yeah. And there is so much shame around exploring yourself. Imagine a woman coming to her husband and say, I think I want to fuck someone else. We hear it on the other end, right? When is a woman supposed to take power? We're just supposed to say, Oh, cool. You want us to go to a sex go to a sex club. Finally, I'll get my chance. What woman can openly say this without being scared that it'll be held against her, right? That's where this book really gave people, yeah, I think some power.

Traci Thomas 0:58

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them, I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today I am joined by the cohosts of the Decisions, Decisions podcast, Mandii B and WeezyWTF. Not only are they fabulous podcast hosts, but now they have taken the leap to becoming authors. They've got a brand new book called no holes barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. The book is hilarious, sometimes painfully honest, and full of the sex capades you've come to know from Mandii and Weezy. We talked today about their differing personalities and approaches to writing, which parts of the book came easy to them and which parts were a little more difficult, and the challenge of committing thoughts and feelings to paper when you're used to talking into a microphone. Today's episode is a really fun one, quick reminder. Everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. And if you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, you want bonus episodes. You want hot takes. You want reading challenges and a bookish community. I've got two places for you to get more stacks. You can go to patreon.com/thestacks to join the Stacks pack, and you can check out my newsletter at Traci thomas.substack.com, all right, now it's time for my conversation with Weezy and Mandii.

Traci Thomas 2:21

Hi, everybody. I am here today with two author guests. I am joined by the women of decisions, decisions, formerly horrible decisions. Mandy B, yeah, we're not on film. We're in their beautiful studio, and there's cameras, and they're like performing for the camera, but you don't have to, okay, I love this doesn't go anywhere, but let me say your names. Mandii B, Weezy, WTF. Ladies, welcome to the S idndatacks.

Mandii B 2:47

Oh, my God, thank you for having us.

Traci Thomas 2:47

I'm so excited.

Traci Thomas 2:47

I'm excited too to have this conversation.

WeezyWTF 2:48

Okay, so let me say the full name of the book so that I don't forget it's called no holes barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. Yes, let's start with the title.

Mandii B 2:59

Oh, the title. The title. Well, wait, you tell us.

WeezyWTF 3:03

When you saw the title?

WeezyWTF 3:11

said no to that. I know

Mandii B 3:16

That wasn't an option for me. I wasn't gonna write a book and ingrain horror for the for the rest of my life.

Traci Thomas 3:29

The publishers won't let you. Oh, they basically will be like, you can't have a swear word. You can't because they don't, because they know Barnes and Noble isn't gonna put it on the table in the run of the store.

Mandii B 3:41

Report, it won't be anywhere.

Traci Thomas 3:42

nobody. What about the holes? The holes is fine. I think holes is fine. I mean, I think your cover is says a lot, does it? The zipper is doing a lot of visual work. Don't you think? Really,

WeezyWTF 3:56

I do too. Because here's the thing, I see lips. Sure I see lips. For the first time, one of my home girls gets the book. She goes, Oh, my God, I love this. It's like zipping your lips for a secret, but also unzipping your pants.

Traci Thomas 4:09

Oh, okay. Well, I see lips, obviously, but also vagina. I don't see you see vagina? You guys don't see vagina. Are you first kidding me? And we I see a lot of like this. Do you see vagina now? Yeah, but we ain't reading like that. Traci, okay, okay, here's the thing. Let me as a person again, who reads a lot of books, yes, and I, I look at, I think about books very seriously. I know who you two are, and I think most people who read your book will know who you are, at least your first batch of readers. Those are gonna be the people who are gonna go in the world and be like, I read Mandy and weezy's book. Like, I loved it. I love the show. You know, it was so great. You have to read this. And then their friend would like, I don't know who they are, like, Oh my God, just read it. You'll love it. Those people are also seeing vagina, because you guys talk about vagina.

WeezyWTF 4:59

Like. Yeah.

Mandii B 5:01

You see lips, right?

WeezyWTF 5:02

You're not nasty. And you know what? Yeah,

Mandii B 5:06

Look at you. You're so horny.

Traci Thomas 5:07

Okay?

WeezyWTF 5:07

I mean, in her, in her defense, maybe she like people aren't I'm not. My friend said it,

Traci Thomas 5:13

But I think that the pink with the red, there are other book there's a book called Tampa, look up, pull up. The cover. Tampa is my favorite book, and it has a similar erotica. It has a similar though, isn't. Tampa has like, a slit in the middle and there's a button. Is there a button? I just I'm thinking of, like, it's like tan with, like light pink with like red.

WeezyWTF 5:33

It's a phenomenal book because, and by the way, I shouldn't be saying that about any book right now, right? I'm supposed to act like everything sucks, like we never read David and Goliath, like, I've never read a good book, but Tampa really got me to the place where I was like, Oh, I was so Zane brain growing up. I don't know if I'd ever read white erotica.

Traci Thomas 5:52

I never read Tampa. I just feel like the cover reminds me of it. It's a vertical and this is horizontal, but I feel like I I feel like there's--

Mandii B 5:59

I'm literally trying to look at the other like, cover options that we had the process of selecting a cover, right? Like, I know Weezy wanted fruits at one point, and we had, like these fruits, and they put, like, the pixelations over it. And to me, I was like, this is two on the nose of sex, yeah. Like, there was one with a peach, there was a leaking strawberry. And I was like, it's a lot cream, pied strawberry. I was like--

WeezyWTF 6:29

So something's been happening in a rebrand, if you've never heard of us, but we were formerly known as the horrible decisions podcast for almost eight years, and horrible spelled W, H, O, R, R, E, yeah. So when we became decisions decisions, it was intentional because of the book. This book is on Charlemagne God's in print, right? And we are also on his podcast network. And I just know we've been known as being so unapologetic that, okay, we're taking horror away. Well, now I want a more suggestive cover, and it was really difficult for me, because I would say I was 15% on board with the name change, 15%, but also--

Traci Thomas 7:04

How on board were you?

Mandii B 7:06

Oh, 110%

WeezyWTF 7:07

Okay, and this was the first time where we had the book. Is exciting to me, but the name change wasn't exciting to me because I was. I'm very scared of the reaction. I've been doing something great that my followers love. I don't give a fuck if you know it's a it's not as large as a Joe Rogan, but I know my fans love this thing, right? So it was like starting a new baby, right, right? And that's why I was like, Well, I gotta keep something nasty. So knowing you see a vagina.

Traci Thomas 7:34

Traci, I do, arms around her. I do. I don't think it takes, I don't I don't think it takes a too big of a leap of imagination to see a slit the

Mandii B 7:44

cover for us was intentional, a not having our faces on it, sure, because we didn't want people to be like, I don't know these bitches, so I'm not picking up the book, yeah, which is what happens when I see people on books. That's true. I know you. I don't care,

Traci Thomas 7:56

unless you're extremely famous, yes, I don't think you need to put your face. I

Mandii B 8:00

don't think you need to put your face on it. And then, for me, maybe spending the last 13 years in New York, I see people on the train reading books, and there's so many times that we hear like, people have to hide their phones at work because of our cover art, or like, you know, they're they're like, I listen to this pod, but they don't say the name, because it's horrible decisions. So for me, I wanted people to feel comfortable even just reading our book in public where it wasn't like this book is suggestive, though. I mean inside the book or the cover, the cover, I think it's still like if I saw suggestive, but it's not a leaking cream pie strawberry. It was not a cream pie. It was a glazed

Mandii B 8:41

strawberry.

Traci Thomas 8:42

We're here now. So, yeah, I think, I think that this accomplishes what you want it to accomplish. I think it says, it definitely says women, because it's the pink and red, it definitely says, like, secrets, okay, whether it's lip sealed pants, unzipping, or perhaps a vagina, it's suggestive, but it also doesn't say, talk about me as I'm sitting on the subway, or, like, point to your friend and be like, do you see what they're reading? Like, it's not like, it's not embarrassing for the reader. We totally jumped into this, but usually I ask guests to start by just telling the audience, in about 30 seconds or so, what your book is, we sort of already kind of leaned in, but if you want to give them like, sort of your elevator pitch, just so folks know,

WeezyWTF 9:26

fun thing to ask Traci, because your pod is the one that I'm the most scared to do this on why we've been podcasting so long. Everybody was sitting down with a pot. Is a podcaster thinking that we're podcasters. So they just got to touch on the book. You're the person that gets it. Oh yeah, I gotta do the whole book, yeah. So I've been calling no holds barred erotica and self help. This is a book that kind of holds the mirror up to your face when you're hearing some stories about trauma and healing, or maybe you know, feelings of needing validity from sex, but at the same time, it's that. Feeling you get when you read a book where you're like, oh my god, I might need to put this down and go do some I find books that make me want to start swiping because I get a little hot. And this book is that it is not that mommy porn that I think that 50 Shades of Gray was this is real deal women that are living these sexual lives that we've been watching in movies. Except it's true. You don't need to watch the podcast. You don't need to know who we are. You will connect with both.

Traci Thomas 10:23

Yeah, I think that's right. I think what I really appreciated about the balance in the book was that a lot of times in books like this, where it's got the self help, and then the memoir, they're sort of separated and and in this case, first of all, I've never read anything where it's like sex, like, so like, graphic sex and self help, not not together, not in, like, not in non fiction, okay, so, like in a romance novel, right? Or something like that, like very graphic, or even in a book that's like recounting trauma, like a memoir about trauma, but something like this, where you're sort of mixing the sexual pleasure with the trauma, or, like, with the lessons. I thought that was really interesting, because there's chapters where you're describing, like, really hot sex, and then you're like, here's some lessons about, like, protection, or like, here's like, you know, in your chapter about BDSM, where it's like, here's this, like, insane sex scene, but also, like, this is how a safe word works. Like, these are things you should be looking for if you're ready to try this. Like, here's three things you should be thinking about. As opposed to a lot of books where it's like, here's where I had sex. Chapter one. Chapter Two, here's what I learned about sex. Chapter Three, here's where, you know. So I like that in the chapters, it was sort of all mixed. I thought that was pretty cool. I appreciate that she liked it, because we haven't had this book come out yet, and I saw someone that got an arc of it, like, Well, does it need to be self help? And I'm like, okay, to me, this isn't black and white. Here's how you get over XYZ, yeah, but I'm gonna tell you my ex crushed me. Yeah? These are red flags I should have noticed. Yeah, I don't think we came off as preachy. I don't think so there's no way, because we've been fucking up in this book. No, I don't. I don't think you guys come off as preachy. I do. I mean, I understand that also as a response, because I think sometimes people feel like they have to do self help, like that, all that, like people like us, who sort of talk into a microphone and like talk about life, can do is self help in like a book. I think that often happens where it's like people come to you, to your show to hear you talk, and like to get advice or to think about things, and so there's an expectation that that's what you will do. So I understand that reader saying that, but I think you guys balanced it well between sharing your stories and your experiences, and then the advice that you had without being like this is the answer to a happy life. Like, I didn't think come off like that.

Mandii B 12:38

Yeah, I was gonna say too. Like, the quote, unquote advice was also given as a take it or leave it, yeah? Like, it's not like this is the way to get here. Like, these are things you can or or don't have to implement, right? But these are things based on our stories and our experience. We think would help.

Traci Thomas 12:57

Yeah, I think that would help. I think that's what came off. Okay, good. So here's my big question for you, which is, sort of all these questions are big Traci, Oh, you think, yeah, okay, well, I'm just getting started, so I'm just gearing up. Okay, I always tell people, people like, Oh, you like, ask such questions. I'm like, I'm just really nosy. And so as I'm reading, I'm just writing down, like, I want to know.

WeezyWTF 13:18

Reader girl vibe, though I am a reader, I only have two really smart friends. Sorry, it's true.

Traci Thomas 13:23

Okay. And sorry to everybody else, the two of you, you know, really smart. I mean, they're knocking out a book in a night. To you have to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to retain that much. Maybe we could all do that. Maybe we could all read a night. But will it be intentional, or are we like, right? These bitches have the same vibe Traci, and they always like try to preface me with something when I read this, Wheezy, I haven't even asked you want to listen to podcasts. I took a moment to think, and I'm like, fuck, I want to be that girl you are. Show me the way. I think you can. I don't know. I'm a sex girl. You read it. Well, what'd you say? I'm the sex girl. You read it. I read it, but you're smart. I thought your chapters were really good. I mean, I have to be honest. Like, going in, I was like, What the fuck am I getting into, right? Like, I was like, Why did they write a book? And then I was like, No, this is like, I get it. Like, I was like, they actually had, like, you guys actually had some things to say. But here's my big question. Don't get me off track. I want to know about the sort of parasocial relationship vulnerability situation, because when you do a podcast, I don't know, maybe you guys don't feel this way, but when I do my show, I say a lot of things into the microphone, and I sort of forget about them, and I know, like, there'll be another episode the next week and the next week. And I've been doing this for seven years, and so there's, you know, almost 400 episodes, and you know, if I said something stupid two years ago, nobody's gonna hear it right. But in a book, sort of committing things to paper, you're committing things to the record in a sort of different way. And I'm wondering, knowing that you have this audience who comes to you, who thinks about you, who knows about you, reading something like this, which feels, I think, more vulnerable. Role than the show, yeah, how you all were thinking about that, how it felt as you were writing things down. There's certain chapters where you each call out, like, this was the hardest chapter for me to write, or, or, you know, you talk about having sex for money, you talk about sexual assault, you talk about, you know, abortion. And there's all these really personal things that I think you've mentioned in the show, but having them sort of concentrated. What was that part like for you?

Mandii B 15:26

Oh, um, it was, it was tough. So first off, I'm glad that we took the time that we did to write this book. How long did it take? Um, well, it got brought to us to do it back in 2021 Okay, we got on the same page about it, maybe not till 2023 okay. And then we locked in our writer, Tempest X to help us construct what you co author, what would you what you see? And then, I think about a year writing. It got it, maybe a little over a year. And so what the book was, from the proposal to this almost night and day, but also I was in a relationship with the ex that I got it, that I referred to throughout the book, and there were whole chapters about me loving it. And so there's a huge weight lifted that that relationship ended and that relationship wasn't cemented in this book as such a great thing. So I am proud about that. But for me, I think what's been dope about our parasocial relationship with our listeners, with potentially the new people reading this book, is we're admitting that we are humans. So guess what this happened to me? Who fucking cares? I've learned from it. I've moved on like so if anyone's gonna judge or make any sort of comments about what my experience is, there's nothing that I have to respond to but like that. So for me, I say it all the time, who I am right now wasn't who I was yesterday. Ain't gonna be who I am tomorrow, right? And so I say it about the podcast as well. If you go back to the beginning, we've been doing our podcast for now eight years. Yeah, so if you go back eight years, I don't agree with a lot of the shit I said. I said so big dumb things, so many dumb things. And so I don't mind people's thoughts about what my life experience has been, whether they like it, whether they don't like it, whether they're like, ooh, this bitch is crazy. Oh, I'm gonna judge her. I don't. I don't have any thoughts about that really.

WeezyWTF 17:24

Yeah, how about you? I would say that the vulnerability for me looks different, because when I'm podcasting, it's like you mentioned earlier, they're performing for the camera. I for one, I've made the comment that while podcasting, I'm able to say crazier things because I don't see the hundreds of 1000s of people watching. Yeah. With the book, it was a little bit easier than I thought it would be, because, not that some of the chapters aren't hard you. I'm sure you got that crazy read, that crazy assault story, it was slightly easier than I thought it would be, because I was writing alone, and it felt like journaling. The hardest part was the publisher talking about it with me. So I was writing the chapters, and we have a co author. I cut Mandy off when she said, writer, because I really want people to understand I wrote what I said, and it was important for me to know that, because every celebrity that writes a book speaks about it and then it's translated. Our co author Tempest X is so dope. We really wanted to get a black woman to write this book with us, and it was more so about having someone connect the dots. We're great storytellers, but can we format this?

Traci Thomas 18:33

Right. So, like helping with the structure, sort of like how it would how it would move the sections.

WeezyWTF 18:38

Being able to take a story that I wrote and make it more legible. Because, you know, I'm getting emotional while reading and writing it and and when and when she hears this, I want her to know how grateful I am. But sometimes when you say writer, I've cut you off, because I know how many times I've written a book and thought, Okay, well, did she write this? I see and so I think for us as podcasters, the credibility can be lost knowing there is another name on that page, but I wrote what I said, and tempest X held it down and made it that book that it is, got it now, when it comes to the vulnerability, it was just her and I when getting to talk about what I wrote, and it felt so beautiful, because it was sisterhood, right? It didn't really feel difficult at all. No, when Simon and Schuster came back and I saw red lines through things that were difficult to say, or, for example, I remember one story in particular. It was something about my ex girlfriend, like I wasn't showing I loved her enough, and I'm like, huh, yeah. Or just like, even little etches between talking about sex or something being redundant, like me talking about eating pussy. Well, that's what we do. Yeah, okay, things like that. That was harder, but we also haven't gotten the hardest part yet, which is the book being out into the world.

Traci Thomas 19:55

Are you worried about what people think about the book? Like, what is? What about. Feels like the hardest part to you.

WeezyWTF 20:02

I'm so well liked in life, in podcasting, people that don't fuck with us are small. You know, they know we're doing something great for the most part our audience. They'll put us in check when we do something wrong, but they give us a hug. I am scared for the people that aren't my audience. You know, when people ask us if we're scared to go on stage on a tour, it's like, these are our girls. Yeah, I ain't met you, but you my dog, right? Listen to my show. How many years you know me? Right? The mom that picks that up in the airport at Hudson news because she left her other book at home, or she's in the mood for something new, she hates it. I don't know how I feel.

Traci Thomas 20:37

But will you do you think that you'll care? Like, if you hear from that mom and she's like, I hated your book. You suck. Like, do you think that will would impact you? Or do you think that like, like, if someone listens to your podcast and is like, this isn't for me, yeah. Does that affect you?

WeezyWTF 20:53

No, but I think the reason the book will is because I feel like that book is so important. Okay, the way that we talk about sex connected with so many people, and we've lasted so long and quit our day jobs and did all this shit because they get it. The raw talk about sex is not appreciated because patriarchal bullshit, like we talked about in the you know, quotes, it's made us think everyone that does that is a hoe. We can't trust hoes. We can't trust women that are raunchy. And so the book, to me, is a little bit of a cover up about how dirty some of those stories get. And I'm scared somebody will read that erotica and think, Well, I'm not gonna trust her. Now, I am very fearful of that, and I think it's because podcasting seems like a safe space, whereas a book is memorialized for someone to go over, circle it, hand it, you know, put it to a friend. And I don't know, but it's black girls that I've been talking to for eight years. Yeah? And now I'm opening myself up to the rest of the world, yeah, we joke that we have 28 white listeners. I'm sure it's 28,000 white listeners, but we joke about them being 28 because they're not the ones I see stopping me in the street as much, right? But I know this book will go further than who I'm used to speaking to, yeah, and I really do feel safe in my own black little world, but this book is black girl, but also woman.

Traci Thomas 22:09

Yeah, for sure. No, I get it. I A lot of people don't talk about, like, candidly, at least with me, about being scared about their book going into the world. I think also, because a lot of people I talk to are authors and writers. That's their first job, and so they are it's a different kind of feeling like they either don't have an audience and it's their first book and they're building it, or they are known for books, and so there isn't that same like, transition. So I'm very fascinated by you saying that you're nervous about it, or that that's like the big one.

Mandii B 22:41

But we had to like the first two reviews that we were able to see were from non listeners, and the reviews weren't great. And it was, it stung a little bit, sure, but it's kind of like what we know like, if you don't know us, right? Do you relate to it? Do you like? There was a white woman who thought there it was bashing. And I was like, I fucked three white guys in this book. Yeah.

WeezyWTF 23:08

You had an Australian, you had a British you had all over the place.

Mandii B 23:12

So it was, it was confusing to see that for me, it stung a little bit. But I understand now musicians who work on albums, yeah, and songs that mean so much to them. And then people just come out immediately--

WeezyWTF 23:27

To reviews. Traci, you know, I know.

Traci Thomas 23:29

Well, you don't have to stop reading the reviews. Has anyone told you this yet?

Mandii B 23:31

Well, no, no, no. Um, well, they sent us the link. It was like, here you go, guys, here's a good read.

Traci Thomas 23:37

Were they on on Goodreads? On Goodreads? Okay, I'm a professor. Do not, do not read the reviews. Okay, don't do it unless you genuinely think that you are going to get information from strangers on the internet about what you could do better for your next book. Because this one's done, yes, why would you do that to yourself? Okay, if you want to talk to your friends or people that you know and respect, if you have other authors or writer people that you know that you genuinely want feedback from, that's one thing, I mean, but

Mandii B 24:06

It's so different than and I guess maybe because, well, I'm saying it's it's no different than us reading the comments for our podcast, there's YouTube, there's Instagram, and you can read comments.

WeezyWTF 24:17

That person doesn't know me. Is that the honest, true answer.

Mandii B 24:22

I don't believe that anyone's opinion. I know that's true.

WeezyWTF 24:25

Go, it's like, it's true. One can be Anon, you know. And I appreciate you saying people don't tell you about being scared, because while I was answering that, being so vulnerable, while we're on this book, on this press tour, trying to sell it, I really do believe what I put out to the world. We wouldn't have put this book out if we thought it was shit. The book even took more time for one of my chapters, in particular, the suicide chapter. Ain't calling it that, but it is that chapter we were supposed to, like, have a deadline, like, something else was supposed to come out. I think it was July. Oh, it went to maybe September, because my chapter. Wasn't it, and that story wasn't even told until the last date, right? I just realized I had to dig deeper. I really am proud of what I wrote. However, the fear, I think, is normal. You know, I'm I work with Hollywood execs all the time in LA for TV and movie shit, they'd be scared as well. Yeah, you know, I just heard one of my favorite actors say they are scared every time they go on set.

Traci Thomas 25:20

I am, like, what I am. I have really bad performance anxiety. I'm scared before every episode I podcast. I used to be a dancer for every time I went on stage, I was an actress. I used to teach fitness before every class I taught, it is part of I mean, I've come to accept that it's part of my process. But I'm always nervous before I do something, because I want to be good at what I do. And, like, I think there is this weird thing culturally going on that we don't have to get into, but that trying hard or caring is embarrassing or cringe, and that, like, do you guys watch the show's succession? Have you ever watched it? You know? Do you know those guys? You know Jeremy strong and Karen Culkin, yes. So love Kieran. It's basically, to me, this thing where it's like, everybody loves Kieran because he's just like, I'm so zany. I do whatever I want, like, I don't prepare. And then there's Jeremy strong, who's this fucking fantastic actor, but because he's a try hard, people don't like him, and I, unfortunately am a try hard on the show, just like, like, there's all this chatter around. He's great on the show. They're both great. The both of their performances are good. But Kieran Culkin, people, like, love him because he's so whatever, and people dislike Jeremy strong because he stays in character on set, and he's, like, so intense, and he's, quite frankly, a weird dude, but he his work is good. And so I feel like there's this whole thing, and I think it's actually connected. Actually connected to Trump that like being prepared, or like being good at what you do, and wanting to be good, and striving to be good is now culturally embarrassing, and because, like Trump, because like Trump became president, just like without trying, and like he doesn't know anything. And then it's like, you have Joe Biden. It's like, Joe Biden's a career politician. It's like, Well, shouldn't we want someone who's put a lot of effort and, like, wants to be the top of their field? Obviously, I think they're both, you know, fuck that, and free Palestine and all of these things, right? Like, I think there's a lot of issues with both of them, but I think there is something happening culturally where it's embarrassing to admit that you're nervous about something or like, want something to be good, because there's an expectation that like, I said, what I said, and fuck you and like i Whatever. I don't care. I just wrote this book. And like, it's great, and--

WeezyWTF 27:33

What else is Bitch propaganda that is slightly fucking us up. Because if we some of the reasons I think people love Diary of a CEO is because you actually hear CEOs talk about fears failures. We need more of that. I'm telling you right now love. I don't really love the Kardashians, but love the ascension of watching Kim reinvent herself over and over and over and over. I want to know what didn't work. What was the product you didn't put up, right? Put this bitch on a mic.

Mandii B 28:05

I mean, that's why. For for the book, it was important for me to do a lot of reflection. Yeah, like me and Weezy before getting into the book, I remember went a little back and forth, because I was like, oh, there's so many things I'm shameful of. She was like, That's not our brand. You can't talk about shame. We empower. Well, clearly I'm putting a voice on it, because I don't know the exact words, but there was a part where you didn't want me to actually admit the shame that I had around things that I had championed on the podcast, like fucking for money, like doing certain things where I made it seem like it was a liberating thing at one time, and now I would never tell someone to do that right, right? And so it was important for me to show that my mind has changed over things, but also like, hey, I can think being a side chick at one point in my life was the best thing since sliced bread, and now today, I could be like, Oh, bitches, because you didn't have any self worth. And so it was important for me to put that in the book to explain what my journey looked like.

WeezyWTF 29:10

When you read the sex for money chapters, they vary. And I think that's exactly the moment she's talking about, because not a few moments in there, we were on the phone with Charlamagne. Well, that was a moment I remember, and you were like, I don't want to talk about fucking for money because I'm ashamed of it. And I'm like, Well, how can we not we've talked about it for so many years. We've got to talk about this thing. And when it finally came out, you read Mandy's, you read mine. I think hers comes first, you read about sex and circumstance. And then I have this thing where I'm like, Oh, I think I want to, because this is a kink, like, there are so many layers to sex for money, as you mentioned, like when you were talking about, you know, that's in the book. But seeing where everyone feels their shame is very interesting, because it's the same. Same thing is, I don't care. I'm this. I'm that every woman feels it somewhere, yeah, and it's not that girls that are more promiscuous are doing things because they you know, I don't know need to cover something up in themselves. Who knows where the shame will come. I talk about shame in my sexual assault chapter because I'm into consensual, non consensual, sex, right? And then this thing happened to me, and I'm like, ooh, am I supposed to still like it, right? It's literally the woman who's been assaulted but still has to fuck men if they've been assaulted by a man, right? So I think all of those things about seeing where your shame pops up is really interesting. And I was fearful in the beginning of talking about shame around sex, because we are celebrating it, yeah. But I love that, seeing some of the faults connect to people.

Traci Thomas 30:48

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I'm glad it was in there. I think it would be a considerably worse book if it was not like, no, legit, seriously, if that wasn't in there, I would be like, so you guys are telling me that you've done all of these things. You know, you started being sexually active at like, 15 or 16, I think in your case, Mandy, and you don't have any regrets, you don't feel any type of way about any of this.

Mandii B 31:09

But you want me to take your advice, so I think it's not realistic. Yeah, to celebrate sex is one thing, but to be realistic about what comes with celebrating the active.

Traci Thomas 31:21

And you can't celebrate, you can't really celebrate something until you understand what you're celebrating. So if you're just blindly like, sex is great, it's like, well, no, some sex is not great. And in a moment, it might have felt fine. And then you look back and you're like, that was not it wasn't okay. And that's like, you know, growth, literally, literally. So I feel like that--

Mandii B 31:41

Which, again, if we're talking about our journeys, it would have I wouldn't have written the book if I couldn't include my therapeutic journey with how I felt in moments that I was sharing and what I'm looking back and seeing. Because again, going back to year one of our podcast, I was 26 years old. I was in my last year of college. I was working corporate. I didn't have the money that I that I have now. I was 80 pounds bigger. There were so many different changes that the things that I felt in that moment are not where I'm at now. And so it was important for me to chronologicalize but also include what my thought was at 26 while I was doing right? So I literally even start my my chapter about the side chick, like, championing side chicks, right? And saying that I was like, you know, the head honcho of side chicks. And then by the end of the chapter, after experience, after women, coming to me as Woman to Woman, and sharing those experiences, I was like, oh, but you were dumb. Yeah, you were real dumb.

Traci Thomas 32:41

Yeah, that's okay. Wait, we'll take a quick break and we'll be back.

Traci Thomas 32:49

Okay, we're back. Okay, I want to shift a little bit, I think, talk to us. I want to talk about sex and sexuality. Okay, because you're both mixed black women. Yes, me too.

Mandii B 33:04

NASA, biracial brigade.

Traci Thomas 33:06

I know they're gonna yell at me. And you both carry a lot of different identities with your sexuality. I mean, man, do you have like, four or five when you laid it out at the beginning, I was like, I'm this, that, this, that, and this. So do you want the backstory on that? I do, but before I let me ask a question, I want you to tell the backstory. I want to know. Well, actually, no, tell the backstory, and then I'll ask my question.

Mandii B 33:29

I I labeled myself that way because our editor read our book, and halfway through, told me I wasn't bisexual because I didn't have the lover and I didn't have enough stories about women, and the way I gave advice was for dating a man. So throughout the book, as I was identifying as bisexual, but she's talking about those red lines that came in. The notes were, yeah, I don't think you're bisexual. I don't think you're this. And I was really like, offended, like someone trying to put a label on me based on how they perceive sexuality to look. And so I was upset, and I expressed myself like almost, how dare you. But that's why, at the top of my chapter, I say I am a queer, bisexual, a rose, sexual, hetero, romantic, CIS, hetero woman, like I lay it out there like that, because while I enjoy having sex with women, I don't have romantic partnerships with women. And so maybe that's what the editor saw. And I was just like, wow, how dare you and she's a part of the community, right? It was obvious. We don't really know, but it was obvious to us. No, she did the show. And so I was okay. I didn't remember it being identified that way, but she's a part of the community. And so for me, I felt like,

Traci Thomas 34:52

gatekeepy,

WeezyWTF 34:53

yeah, and how are you listening?

WeezyWTF 34:55

As a lesbian, you know this to be true, the bisexuals are not fun. For you. We go to the bar, and you are like, bitch, get out of here. So it was almost like it happened in the red line, like you're walking into a gay bar. I go to New York, the cubby hole. Sometimes when I walk in there, I literally had a girl look at me, and she was like, I could tell you, fuck with dudes. What is it like? What is it? Is it the cargos aren't cargoing Like it's weird, but that was literally what we got to see happen in real time on a book about sexual exploration,

Mandii B 35:29

While at the same time I mentioned in, can I put it back there? I mentioned my ignorance and homophobia at an early age, sure. So to me, sexuality is expressed almost in every chapter, whether it be things that I need to unlearn based on, you know, community, based on religion, based on I'm Jamaican, so, based on how I was brought up, and then me leaning into exploring and seeing what my sexuality is like. And so, yeah, during the book process, I laid it out like that, because I was like, Bitch, look up all these words, because this is how the fuck I identify. Yeah. And so, yeah.

Traci Thomas 36:06

Okay, that makes a lot of sense, actually. Well, my question sort of around it was what you were just getting at, which is like, how have you guys navigated being out and queer in these public spaces, especially right now, when there's so much sort of hate and ignorance around black people, queer black people, and you guys are so open and upfront with it, like, Do you ever worry about boundaries or safety, or any of that stuff?

Mandii B 36:31

No one talks about the privilege that women have with sexuality. Sure, I think the fear that exists around sexual identity, unfortunately, is targeted to black men specifically and trans, yeah, and so for us, saying we eat coochie, saying we kiss women, saying we date women, saying we date couples, I don't feel like outside of the horror title or the promiscuous label that I really feel attacked on my sexuality. Okay? And so what I like about our platform, what I like about the book, is wearing it proudly and being happy, which is why I took so offense to How dare you try to kick me out of the alphabet community, right? I am what I say. I am, right. And so I don't feel like we have all the fear around us, that that black men and and trans trans people have at all okay around sexuality.

WeezyWTF 37:26

How about you? Um, well, I was with a woman for a few years, vacationing all over the world together, and there are a few instances where it wasn't fear, but it was definitely prejudice. So one moment that sticks out, it's unforgettable to me. We were staying at the Waldorf in Panama City, Panama, and this is a place where prostitution is legal. Her and I were out having fun. Came in back to our hotel. We'd been staying there for a few days. We were maybe wearing bodied Han dresses. We didn't look actually, you know what look at me about to judge riches? I was gonna say we ain't look cheap, but that's what's in my head, right? No, like we were looking cute, like I'm just saying we ain't look raggedy. Okay, the way that this guy treated us because we were holding hands, and maybe she gave me a kiss. They swore we were coming in the hotel to solicit sex. Oh, crazy. Like ready to call the police. She starts to cry. She gets uncomfortable. My ex girlfriend is religious, very religious, and was at the time of us dating she I believe in that moment, we never talked about this, but I would bet was feeling like, Fuck I'm this is what I deserve me. I'm like, fuck you. I will call them Manager. This is Hilton property. You said I'm light too. Don't forget, I will show you the photos I am. Yeah. Girl. So anyway, the hotel was very hush about it. Wanted to give us credits, x, y, z and her, have I kind of swiped over it. There was another instance in Paris where we were out together. I would describe this as one of those, like party restaurants. It wasn't super quiet. Wasn't families think of like a towel, a big sure, that type of shit. And this guy was there with his wife, and we're having fun. We're sitting close. We're not making out. I don't actually make out with anyone in the restaurant. And this guy said he would pay for our dinner if he would switch seats. And so I'm like, running the tab up, and I'm not caring. Thinking it's funny. And again, I saw another moment of her being like, holy shit. She wanted to switch seats so he didn't have to look at you. Because I want his wife and him to, like, have to. It wasn't him. It was his wife to, like, see you guys. We were being affectionate. Oh, she had her arm on me, like, maybe brushing my hair out of the way. But like, the other context of my ex and I that, I will say she's very beautiful, very girly, very lipstick Les and she even the way I'm dressed now I'm in sweat. You can't see me, but she would want me to dress up too, and we looked like these two girly girls that were dating. And that's not very common with lesbians. Normally have a look that we can imagine. And so I think for that alone, it made men stare at us, and sometimes it made our relationship a little bit for the male gaze, that was where I had seen those things. Now granted, if we were black men, I'm sure there had been 100 these stories, right, right? But those were things I saw, and that was, to me, level one, the thing that I think I experienced more than anything is just it's very hard to be out and proud as someone who's non monogamous. There's a lot of judgment there. I've actually experienced more judgment from women than anyone. My mom's cool with it. She knows who I am. She knows that me and my boyfriend date women, we might have a girlfriend. My mom knows when someone was downstairs. She was making us dinner. And I'm like, Okay, we gotta go. And she's like, You got someone coming over, who you guys have coming over? Like, this is normal language in my house. This is who I've been for eternity. But the general public doesn't think my relationship is real because I'm in an open one that's normal, honoring my love and my spaces that, to me, is all part of the queerness, you know what I mean. And so the sexual orientations being a part of judgment is something I think anyone that you know, and I know they're just used to it. We just accept our fate.

Traci Thomas 41:16

Yeah, do you have you noticed a shift in how people talk to you or respond to you in like as the political climate's changed at all.

Mandii B 41:25

I don't have many of those conversations with people.

WeezyWTF 41:29

I would say the way that I feel the shift in the political climate is probably from brands and advertising and us feeling that in that way, not necessarily us and, you know, existing individually, but I do feel it sometimes when it comes to us trying to put our things out in the world, right?

Mandii B 41:47

I mean, I reference the reversal of Roe v Wade in my abortion chapter. So for me, it was really important, and there was no way in hell with the current climate. I wasn't going to include my abortion story and why? What, what that moment felt like for me. I that was, it was one of my easiest chapters to write. However it it required the most amount of work. I had never spoken to my mom about it after it was done. So 17 years later, I interviewed my mom for this book and asked how she felt in that moment, my friend kita, who gave me $500 for check.

Traci Thomas 42:30

That was, like, a real surprise, heartwarming moment of the chapter. Yeah, sure.

Mandii B 42:34

I took a note about and me and her came together, and she's like, you don't even know where I was in it. I still, like, still friends with her. Yeah.

Mandii B 42:42

So might you not be--

Traci Thomas 42:42

Because you weren't that good of friends with her at the time, which was part of the story. So it wasn't weird. If it was like, You got closer because of it.

Mandii B 42:51

She ended up going, she's, she lived in Korea for quite a few years, but she's in DC, and so whenever we had a live show, she was there, ironically too, because she's from Orlando, she knows her best friend, Vinnie, so like knowing how small the world is, knowing that she knew Vinnie, you know, like she She's another person that I interviewed because I had never asked her or my mom what, How my decision made them feel, how I impacted, how what I did put any debt into, you know, their lives at the moment. And her dad had passed away, so she's like, I was taking care of the house, but I knew you needed it more. And I hate like getting like them about this, but she meant a lot.

Traci Thomas 43:39

I You could feel, you can feel all of that. And I mean, I lit, I literally was like, I gotta, I was like, I gotta ask about the friendship.

WeezyWTF 43:47

And like, the book is really dope to read, like, front to back, because there's so many elements, dating and love, but seeing how friendship is community and like, how much they mean. I even the guy she's talking about, Vinnie. He's my best friend. I say I'd be jealous of his mother if she didn't push him out. Like, that's how much I've been attached to this person. It really shows you how the journey is not alone. Like we really do need friendship in order to get over and shit, get under someone. Yeah, I talk about the devil on your shoulder and the angel on your shoulder. Like we need that friend to champion us, to help us, you know, get through what we may be confused about within ourselves, because a lot of times when we're meeting women, we were the first time they had a friend that could hold their hand and say, Yes, do it, yeah. And there is so much shame around exploring yourself. I'm not talking about, you know, maybe for those listening, it might be something like, as simple as, I don't know, going on a dating app. A lot of these women were like, I've never been able to say I wasn't having an orgasm, right? I've never been able to say, Hey, I'm curious about, maybe it's exploring sex with other i. People imagine a woman coming to her husband and say, I think I want to fuck someone else. We hear it on the other end, right? When is a woman supposed to take power? We're just supposed to say, Oh, cool. You want us to go to a sex club. Finally, I'll get my chance. What woman can openly say this without being scared that it'll be held against her, right? That's where this book really gave people, yeah, I think some power. I think that's right.

Traci Thomas 45:21

Okay, hard shift. Okay, I have some questions I ask everybody. Okay, first and foremost, how did you write this book? Where were you how many hours a day, computer, phone, notepad, snacks and beverages, candles. This question, what set the scene for your writing process?

WeezyWTF 45:40

I'll tell you two chapters, because those are memorable. Okay, because it was actually--

Traci Thomas 45:43

You did all sorts of different things for each just depending.

WeezyWTF 45:47

Love chapter, which is my favorite, because I'm such a lover girl, but I'm reading the book, you can tell I'm the one. I'm boyfriend girl. I'm like, Oh, yay, he's hitting my husband, and it's like, the DOM. And I'm like, Well, maybe it'll work out. Yeah, you know when I watch movies and you see someone that cares about someone so deeply that they're looking at each other in a certain way, they're doing these extravagant acts of romance, like I finally received it. I would write the love chapter every time he left me, because I didn't want to forget the feeling on the beach when he was sleeping. There's a moment where I talk about peeing out semen so I won't get BV. And I'm like, Oh, I gotta put this in the book. But I wrote that chapter everywhere. Yeah, the chapter about my ex girlfriend was, I don't know if you remember me saying I masturbated halfway through, yes, I do it. That was a threesome chapter I wrote that on my phone on a plane, and the other half of it at my current boyfriend's house. And that chapter, as sexy as it was, it got so serious that I felt guilty writing it in his home, because I realized how I couldn't say anything bad about her. Never a snack, always water.

Traci Thomas 47:03

You can leave.

WeezyWTF 47:05

Never a snack, because if I eat the snack, I want TV girl, I see, okay, oh, I can't have no Cheetos. I can't No popcorn without being like, let me just sit down and watch any fiance. Okay? And in every emotion, happy, sad, I've been high once. That was fun. I did some acid, and I just needed to burn out a little bit. I didn't have a method to doing it. I worked with Malcolm Gladwell on a project, and I loved the way that he talked about writing books, because it sounded like a real author, and for me, it wasn't got it. Now I feel like because Mandy and I are so opposite. She's so structured and organized in her everyday life. Now I want to know how you wrote it, structured and organized.

Mandii B 47:43

That's absolutely not at all close to how you did it. I knew which chapters would be easy for me and which ones would be emotional labor, yeah. So that's how I structured which ones I would write first, like, ironically, the abortion one came quick introduction came quick. Go meeting the couple in Mexico came quick. So what my process looked like would be taking, say, maybe two chapters. These are the two chapters I'm going to work on this week. Tempest would come over, and we did four, four hour blocks. So over the four hours, we would sit with each other, and she'd hit the record button, and she would talk me through, chronologically, how I wanted to narrate the story, which parts were important for me to put in there, and what the arc of it would be, yeah. So what is the theme of this chapter? What is the arc of this chapter? So I would start just talking about it. That's how we would do it, and then literally, she would stop me. Okay, what about if we take the story this way, so that the audience knows where you're going with it. That's how the can I put it back there chapter way. It literally went from my homophobia and my views on anal sex in the beginning to finally experiencing anal sex in a climatic way, yeah, all the way to me enjoying penetrating men. So there was always themes. And so literally, it would be four hours at a time with her. She would leave. I would have my notes on how the chapter's supposed to be. She's like, write it and get it to me. And so my process would be waking up the next morning and getting to work, snacks and beverages. Oh, I was drinking, okay, I was drinking. Yeah, liquor, maybe some wine. Me and tempest during our meetings, they were four hours, so we would always at like me getting flustered in the two hour halfway through we're ordering lunch. And for that, it was almost always Mediterranean. I don't know why that was the food choice.

Traci Thomas 49:46

A meze moment.

Mandii B 49:47

It was a moment. It was a fish. It was a fish. It was a dip. It was a pita bread. That was what we ate a lot. I didn't know think about Tempest the before when writing. But while Mandy was. Saying it. I had these moments with Tempest too, but it wasn't till after I wrote, If I did what you did before I wouldn't get the chapter out. She came over to my house one time and saw what it did to me. It's very confusing. I'm very Pisces for anyone listening, very water sign, very like I'm free bird, if she did that with me, whereas that helped you? Well, it felt deterring for me. The process changed for me. I was very insecure about a even how I speak, so I was like, Who? And at the moment, there was like an outpouring amount of insecurity around how I put my thoughts together, right? So at first having her be a part of the process, I was like, Okay, you're gonna record everything I say and write it. That's how I at first thought the process was gonna be. And I said, I wanted to sound like me. She did that one time. I got the chapter back, and I said, I'm blunt. I really like you, so don't take this the hard way. I fucking hate it. Hate it. This sounds terrible. She's like, well, you want it to sound like how you talk? I said, it sounds remedial, yeah. I fucking hate how this reads. It was like, three words, period, four words, period. I'm a long flow sentence, bitch, yeah, when I write, but how I speak, my thoughts are a little jittery and scattered, yeah. And so when I saw it, I said, Absolutely not. I hate this. And she said, No. She said, the chapter that could have been.

WeezyWTF 51:35

That should be bonus content for the Patreon.

Mandii B 51:40

Especially because I've expressed how much I hate it, and so I'm really glad that we had that moment, because her response to that was okay. Well, I wanna make sure I know what your flow is. So you write based on what our interview, our conversation was. You write your introduction. I went and wrote my introduction, and she said, Amanda, this is beautiful. Oh, and she was like, How dare you have that insecurity? Yeah, you you're writing all your chapters, and I'm gonna come in and we're gonna make sure it's structured. And so from that point on, she gave me the confidence to literally sit in front of my computer, and it became such a great experience for me.

WeezyWTF 52:23

I know we don't have a lot of time, but I need to know your favorite chapters from each of us.

Mandii B 52:29

Or, like, what moments that I know? You said.,

Traci Thomas 52:31

Yeah the abortion chapter of yours. I really, really liked, I like the DOM chapter of yours. I really like that one.

WeezyWTF 52:40

I cannot believe that. As only said, why I thought you would have said my assault chapter? I mean, because if the abortion chapter for Mandy connected that chapter, I guess the other flip side of it is the vulnerability.

Traci Thomas 52:55

jI ust think you guys are also really different. And so I felt like I'm not like, yeah, oh yeah. Your writing styles are really different too, okay? But I also, like, sometimes I would be because I did it digitally. Sometimes I would be in a Chapter and be like, Wait, who is this? And then I'd be like, Oh, obviously, guys like your styles on the page, but yeah, but you can't go back digitally, yeah. And so I was like, I would be deep into the chapter, and I'd be like, Wait, who's this again? And then I was like, oh shit, duh. So I just feel like, I don't know that chapter to me of yours, felt like, really? You like, I felt like, Oh, this is like, Weezy doing her thing. And I felt like, the abortion, I would say the abortion, but I also think the sex for money chapter.

Mandii B 53:41

Oh, wow. Where I pretty much called myself pathetic the whole time.

Traci Thomas 53:45

Well, I just thought it was, like, it was an interesting journey. I thought there was, like, a nice arc to that chapter. Thank you. I think I don't know, Andy's wonderful chapter, I do, but it might just be because, like, I can't say why those chapters of yours worked for me. And like, I don't know. I think also, like the combination of having, like, some chapters that had more like levity and more like sex and like, kind of like wild party girl vibes. And I also liked, like I did like your assault chapter, and I thought it was interesting how you, like, Incorporated your lineage of being a party girl. I think that's how you phrased it, or something, because was your mom.

WeezyWTF 54:21

One thing you hear, yeah, it came after a party, right? So I deserve this right?

Traci Thomas 54:25

And I thought that was interesting. I those are the, those are the like four chapters that stick out to me as being like my my favorites, I love that.

WeezyWTF 54:36

I would like to tell your listeners too, the book is broken up into pain, pleasure, progression, power. So in the pain chapters, there's an abortion story, and then there's that BDSM DOM chapter you're talking about. Like, I think so, yeah.

Mandii B 54:52

In the pain section, all the ones, I like to think, oh, no, one is a purpose, progression or progression, you know, you know what's crazy about. You. And structure that how we have an outline for our podcast. I was like, We need to break this up into sections. Even the patriarchal bullshit had to have a matriarchal reply. Like, yeah. Everything was really intentional with the structure of it, like, Yeah. Even the going back and forth.

WeezyWTF 55:16

Just from writing chapters, by the way, right? Pain, pleasure progression.

Mandii B 55:20

We had, we had pain first. We were like, the book, can't start with pain. We had to. So we even moved that around, putting pleasure first pain in the middle, then progression was always going to be at the end. And then power came at, like.

Traci Thomas 55:33

That's just like a tiny epilogue,

Mandii B 55:35

Yep

WeezyWTF 55:36

Yeah. We had pain, pleasure progression. Because the stories we wanted to tell we're like, how do these fit in? And then power might have been Tempest. His idea of just like, how do we really make this stick? These are powerful stories.

Mandii B 55:48

Well, no, we had power there. However, the how it was supposed to look for us writing letters to ourselves, so and then. So, you know what's crazy that happened. We both wrote these letters to ourselves. They read so different. They didn't mesh. We were like, yeah, no. So Tempest came and said, Okay, both of you write to me what power looks like to you. And so then we have all the ways in which--

Traci Thomas 56:16

That's the chapter you guys write together. Yes, the introduction, part of the introductions together. And then everything that was together, everything else is split up. Okay, we're out of time. But I have to ask my last question and ask everybody, okay, which is, if you could have one person dead or alive read this book, who would you want it to be?

Mandii B 56:30

Oh, bell hooks. And we have two quotes in there from her, yeah. So can I add one more? Yeah? Only because she is the icon of sex, and we don't know much of her story. Sister Souljah, that's fine. Marilyn Monroe,

Traci Thomas 56:47

Oh, interesting.

Mandii B 56:48

Oh, she had us. I want we wrote this book for all women, I think, for her, being the icon, essentially, of sex, promiscuity, being a man eater. However, we never got to hear her, her side, the pain that went into it, maybe the assaults that she dealt with with men being in the industry. And so there's just a story of hers untold that I think if she read this, yeah, it would, it would have empowered her, if she was totally alive.

WeezyWTF 57:15

Totally I think when I hear that question, I'm like, my first thing is, I want to know what this person thinks of it, so I can only think of the people that inspire me. That inspire me. And so this book, to me, I am more excited about the erotica in it. When I say erotica with self help, it's the outline of how to, you know, circumvent, basically what could go wrong, right, based on the things you've read, right? However, self help. To me, people that are alive, that are great at doing this are the Malcolm gladwells, I could even say Mel Robbins, right. That's those people are in there. Let's just say these two erotica is, to me, the backbone of this book. It's the front cover of this book. Yeah, it is the two girls success and how they got this book. So I think about the erotica that really got me going. Jane Zane, Eric Jones, Dickie, Sister Soulja, I think if any one of them could read it, I would want to know what they thought of how those sexual stories were told. Because best line of a book all time, I bust out my mama's coochie. That was coldest when I ever sister soldier. I remember opening that book as a kid and being like, and I put it down because I thought my family could see me.

Mandii B 58:28

I want to know. My mom gave me that book for Christmas.

Traci Thomas 58:31

I love it, all right, party people, no holds barred, yeah, it is out in the world. As you're listening to this conversation, you can get it wherever you got your books. The ladies do the audio book. It is not finished as we're recording, so I have not been able to listen to it, though I really want to, and I probably will once it comes out.

Mandii B 58:48

For anyone who hasn't been an author, that was harder than writing, everybody says the audio book was.

Traci Thomas 58:54

And I bet it was really hard for you, because you have a sort of New York accent. Do i You are from Florida, but you have, you have you have an accent.

Mandii B 59:03

I bet they were all, I think I sound just real. I This is the standard of English. You know what? I know audiobook

WeezyWTF 59:09

that I actually, I don't know if I told you you mentioned Australian guy, British guy. Oh, I did all you did that performance, full performance pieces. Take your pennies off. And it's so funny, because the director was like, it doesn't feel right if you don't do it. I was like, but it I was like, but it sounds bad. She's like, but they know you're gonna sound bad. No, they don't.

Traci Thomas 59:26

Girl, yes, they do. Okay, well, well, anyways, you can get the book wherever you get your books, audio, print, whatever you want. Ladies, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. This was great. And everyone else, we will see you in the stacks.

WeezyWTF 59:35

See you in the Stacks.

Traci Thomas 59:42

All that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to WeezyWTF and Mandii B for joining the podcast. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Kip Lanham and Kara Brock for making today's episode possible. Remember our book club pick for July is God Help the Child by Toni Morrison, which we will. Discuss on Wednesday, July 30, with Dana a Williams. If you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks to join the stacks back and you can check out my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com, make sure you're subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave us a rating and a review for more from the stacks. Follow us on social media at the stacks pod on Instagram, threads and Tiktok, and check out our websiteat thestackspodcast.com. Today's episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Wy'Kia Frelot. Our graphic designer isRobin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Wy'Kia Frelot
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Ep. 378 I’m Trying to Avoid Toni Morrison with Dana A. Williams