Ep. 373 Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley — The Stacks Book Club (Kara Brown)

Written By Wy'Kia Frelot

It’s the Stacks’ Book Club Day, and we’re discussing Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley with returning guest, Kara Brown. We share our thoughts on the story’s twists and turns, especially the big reveal. Then we dive deeper to discuss the significance of this book on the literary landscape, and what about the novel does and doesn’t hold up when viewed through a modern-day lens.

There are spoilers on this episode.

Be sure to listen to the end of today’s episode to find out what our June book club pick will be.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

To support The Stacks and find out more from this week’s sponsors, click here.

Connect with Kara: Instagram | Website
Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | Twitter | Shop | Patreon | Goodreads | Substack | Subscribe

To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. If you prefer to support the show with a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod.

The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website.

TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Kara Brown 0:00

It's like, a nice, dry white wine that goes down easy. You're like, is it a $12 bottle that goes down really easy? And I'm like, hell, yeah, I'll drink that. And I feel like these books, a lot of these mysteries, for me, are in that category of like, there are a lot of things you can harp at, but I'm like, ultimately, it did feel like that $12 bottle of white wine where I'm like, yeah, it's exactly.

Traci Thomas 0:22

Yeah, and I think that's hard to do, yes.

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and it's the last Wednesday of the month, aka the Stacks Book Club Day. Today, we are discussing the 1990 classic mystery novel, Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley. I'm joined for this conversation by screenwriter and cultural critic, Kara Brown. In our chat today, we dig into the racial politics of the novel, try to unpack the crimes and their motives and discuss the violence and PTSD depicted throughout the book there are a lot of spoilers on today's episode. Be sure to listen to the end of the episode to find out what our June book club pick will be. Quick reminder, everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you love this podcast and you want inside access to it, there are two fantastic ways to support the show. One is by joining the Stacks Pack community over on Patreon. By going to patreon.com/thestacks over there, you're going to get bonus episodes, access to our Discord community and a lot more. The other way you can support is by subscribing to my newsletter. That's where I'm going to give you a lot of hot takes about books and pop culture. You'll get bonus episodes over there too, don't you worry. And you can do that by going to tracithomas.substack.com either way, you're earning perks for yourself and helping me make this podcast free every single week. Okay, now it's time for my conversation with Kara Brown about Walter Mosley's debut novel, Devil in a Blue Dress.

All right, everybody. It is the Stacks Book Club Day. We are joined again by the wonderful Kara Brown. Kara, welcome back to the Stacks.

Kara Brown 2:10

So well I and I feel like I'm extra excited for--

Traci Thomas 2:14

I'm really excited too, because neither of us know what the other one thinks, and we're both just smirking at each other. So I can't wait. But before we do that, let me tell you all what we're gonna talk about today. We're talking about devil in a blue dress, the 1990 debut of iconic mystery writer Walter Mosley. It's the first book in the Easy Rollins series, which has like a billion books in it. There's a new one coming out this year. He's not done. Easy has had a hard life. And for folks who are listening, who have not read the book, we are going to spoil this book. So if you haven't read it, you should pause. We're going to talk about every twist and turn. We're not going to leave you with any thing to revel in if you read it now. So if you haven't read it, read it now, or don't care about spoilers, that's up to you. And let me give a quick little plot summary. I'm gonna or quick plot studies, I'm gonna try. Do you wanna try? Okay, so, Ezekiel, aka Easy Rollins, is a world war two veteran who is from Houston, by way of Louisiana, who has moved to Los Angeles, great migration, anybody? He is out of work when we find him. He's just been laid off from his job, and he's at a bar his friend joppee joppies bar, and a white man walks in. We get the we get white man in the first sentence, iconic, who is looking for a white lady named Daphne Monet. He says, to Easy, I will pay you a whole bunch of money if you can find this white lady. I can't find her myself because she likes to frequent Negro establishments. Easy, decides to do it because he's got a mortgage payment. And then from there, we try to find Daphne. A lot of people die between so many, between meeting DeWitt, the white man, and the end of the book, there's many murders, all murders. No one just like, has cancer, no it's murder after murder after murder. So that's the setup of the book. We always start here. So just kind of generally, Kara, what did you think of the book?

Kara Brown 4:28

I feel like, I don't, I didn't really know. Like, I finished it, and I was like, first of all, I had to, like, really think about what happened, because a lot of people died, as you said, and a lot of people died kind of like, I know it's a book, but I'm gonna say, like, off screen, yes, you know, I mean, like they died in a way where you just heard that they had died, which made it a little hard to fall, because you would like, meet someone, and they'd be like, they're dead, and you're like, oh, okay, you know, you only have, like, a scene. With them, and then they were dead. So, yeah, I would, I guess I'm giving him a little leeway in terms of the sort of detective murder mystery thing, because it's the first book, so you have to set it up, because it's sort of right, like it's the canon, like he's not a he's not a detective yet, yeah, I imagine now, like, I can't even imagine what year it is in these books. He's still writing them now, because it's like 1948 or something, probably like the first one. Yeah, it's got him. He's got to be like an old old man. But like, he wasn't. It wasn't really like a detective story. I would say, yeah. And I think, because when I think of Walter Mosley. That's that's what I am expecting. It left me having to, like, figure out what I just read a little bit.

Traci Thomas 5:47

Yeah, okay, so I agree with that. I think my takeaway was, like, I enjoyed reading it, like I read it quickly. I was locked in. I would sit down and I would read like, 50 pages and be like, Whoa. Like I am reading this. I found myself, by the time we sort of got to everything wrapping up, extremely confused. I mean, I took so many notes that were like, who killed who? But also why? Like, why did that person know that other person and kill them? Because so many of the murders that happened on and off screen were by and of peripheral characters. So that was very confusing to me. Like, there's a guy, Hugh or Howard, who dies, like, at the top of the book that I don't think we actually ever meet him. We just hear about his murder, and then, like, find out later that, like, joppee did it. And I'm like, wait, yeah, why? So I think that was, like, really challenging for me. There's a huge twist at the end, which we will get to that I saw coming a mile away. Yes, yes, mostly because I know who Walter Mosley is, and also because the some of the dialog just was, like, gave it away for me. But also that is my personal kink. Is that kind of twist. I'm always looking for it. I'm always like, Okay, so let's, let's just dive into the book. One of the things that I feel like, I feel like, one of the things that I would like to talk about with you, because, you know, these things, is like, what is supposed to happen in a detective mystery. Because I also felt like this was sort of a I felt like Walter Mosley knew, or hoped there would be more to this man's story. And there's a section, like towards the end where he's looking for Frank, and he's like, going into the barbershop and going all these places. And I took a note that was like, this is the creation myth of easy Rollins. Like, it's so clear to me that at this point, he's decided this will continue. So can you talk just like, a little bit about the genre of, like, what we should be expecting?

Kara Brown 7:56

I mean, you know, I don't know that. I'm, like, an expert, but I will say, from my recent reading, what's interesting is I read a lot of the I read a lot of books like devil in the blue dress and that they were the first books in an ongoing series. Okay, so, because I was starting from scratch, so I read the beginning, you know, like I read the first Agatha Christie novel with what's the dude perot like that guy, and then, and yeah, and a few other ones that were really, like the origin stories. So it was a lot of, like the books I was reading. They weren't people who were detected. They were like, Oh, I'm like a lady in a town. And now I, now I do detective work because I got pulled into a murder. And this is, like my quirky life now. So I feel like, in that regard, that is what this book did, like, it's it set him up to go off and be a detective. I think what maybe this was meant to be, sort of the twist, or the different thing with this, you know, there is not one big murder, right? Which generally has been in the things I've been reading, there's like a murder and someone is trying to solve a murder. So this very much did not have that. Instead, it had, I'm looking for this white lady, and along the way, a lot of people die. And so in that way, it definitely didn't feel like a murder mystery. It felt like a mystery, but not like we're trying to solve for a murder I've found too, or at least the stories that I liked, it was, and I guess he sort of did this where it's part of this community. I think what happened with this one is, like, there's so many damn people that I like, couldn't really get a grip on the community. Because what I liked in some of these other mystery novels was like, Okay, I'm in this small town, I'm in this community, I'm meeting the people in town, and you're like, oh, who? Who could it be? What are their relationships with each other? They all have mysteries amongst themselves that aren't murder, but are other things they're trying to hide. And that informs, you know, the, you know, discovering the murder. This felt like, I do think he did a pretty good job of like, placing me in Los Angeles at this time.

Traci Thomas 9:59

Yeah.

Kara Brown 9:59

But. That I wasn't with anyone for more than, like, three pages, yeah, so I kind of couldn't really follow how they were informing the mystery, how they were concealing the mystery. I didn't necessarily think of any of them as suspects.

Traci Thomas 10:15

Right?

Kara Brown 10:16

Weirdly.

Traci Thomas 10:16

Right. No, I think that's right. I Yeah. I felt like it was, I was sort of confused. I mean, I think the big question for me that kept coming up is, kept coming up is, like, why, why not so much, what? But like, Why? Why would this person care about that? Or, like, why? What would motivate someone to murder another person in this situation? And I feel like we didn't get a lot of that. And so that was, like, really held me back. One of the things that I have to ask you about is the racial politics in this book, because on the back of my copy, I don't know if you have the same one as me, I have, like the 2020 reprint, but there's a quote from The New York Times that says "More than simply a detective novel, Mosley is a talented author with something vital to say about the distance between the black and white world, And with a dramatic way to say it." And I've heard a lot of people talk about, like, his writing about race, and obviously this book came out in 1990 but I don't think he had anything to say about race so much or like he had some things, but nothing profound or interesting to me. But I'm wondering if that's just because I'm 35 years ahead of this. And so it didn't feel like new or interesting,

Kara Brown 11:24

Yeah. I mean, we have the white cops and we have all of the bad white guys, yes, which doesn't feel like, yeah, okay, yeah. And he's mostly interacting with other black people.

Traci Thomas 11:42

You know, he runs into so many white people every time he's out. He's, like, there's a white man in my car. He like, bumps into them.

Kara Brown 11:49

Yeah, he has these sort of, like, one off kind of business arrangements. But like, he's not spending time with any white people. He doesn't seem to have any relationships with any white people. I would say the closest they got was him and his boss, where he's like, I'm not apologizing to this honky kind of was like, dumb. And I was like, That scene was kind of interesting, because I think also, right, like, he's, he's actually Italian. Was just trying to be funny. And so you're like, okay, so he does exist in this kind of ethnic white space where right there that changes their interaction or colors it in some way, and he doesn't want to kowtow to him. And that's kind of interesting. But yeah, I mean, I guess the reveal we can tell you, perhaps, yeah, so you find out that Daphne, the woman he's, the white woman he's been looking for is, in fact, a mixed race, black woman who has been passing as white. I guess that saying like, I guess if you are, maybe a white person that is telling you something like in the 90s, that's telling you something about passing in black people and someone's relationship with their blackness. For me now, that is not telling me anything, yeah, but I guess maybe then it was, it was some sort of Revelation.

Traci Thomas 13:13

I do think, I think passing stories were really big in the 90s. People were really like, what? And I think I think we should say this, though I feel like it's stupid to do this, because so many people do know. But because of a lot of pop culture things going on right now, I've seen a lot of people getting confused on passing and white presenting. So I'm just gonna do a quick, just a quick one sentence each. Okay, so white, passing or white presenting is a person who is not white, or not completely white, who looks as if they could be white, that person still lives as a black person or person of color. There's no secrets. There's no hiding. They're just fair skinned. For example, take Danzi Senna, one of our favorite authors. She look white as hell. Okay, people think she's Jewish all the time. She is not she writes a lot about being black. She talks about being black. That is her identity. She's just white. Presenting white passing are people who look similarly to danzi, who pretend to be white. They tell people they are white. They hide their identity. These are two different things. White passing is a choice that someone makes. White presenting is just genetics. I'm not making a moral judgment on on passing or not. I'm just laying it out for you guys. Okay, so please stop calling people who are fair skinned passing. They're not passing. You just don't know that they're black. Did people say that, Oh, my God yes, all the time. People always, people talk about, like, celebrities who are really passing? Yeah, they'll be like, they'll be like, Oh, Rashida Jones is passing. I'm like, No, babe. She's not. We know who her dad is. And also, she looks black.

Kara Brown 14:55

Also, her name is Rashida, but, but I would say two, in 2025, I don't know that passing is a thing. And like, yes, you know what I mean. Like, you understand passing in a time of segregation and Jim Crow and things like that, where you're it was also, to some degree, like a safety, like, you know you you were choosing, perhaps, like, to lead a life that felt safer or an easier, whatever, who the hell is passing in 20 who's actively passing in 2025?

Traci Thomas 15:26

People might do it like, I think people might pass now in situations simply to like, like, at the store, you know, they might just like, pretend to be a little whiter than they are, so that they don't get like, you know, like little things, or like going to talk to their kids teacher, or something, you know, like in in situations, but not like light, not like disowning their family and moving away and like, which is what it what it could have been sometimes, and what it seems like it sort of was for Daphne, though, aka Ruby, Though she is, has not completely abandoned her family because Frank is her brother, and that's the twist.

Kara Brown 16:06

And the whole time they thought they were dating, they were like, that's his white girlfriend.

Traci Thomas 16:10

Yeah, that's his white girlfriend, and they're having so much sex, and she's like, No, you have no idea what Frank means to me. And that when she said that, I was like, that's because he's your brother and you're black. That's when I knew there's a line where she's like, You have no idea the relationship between Frank and I. And I was like, I now have an idea. It sounds like--

Kara Brown 16:27

Well, the funny thing too to me about so my mother is from Louisiana. Yes, my like, my grandmother is very, very light. And I'm also familiar with, like, black people who a lot of people would call them white, and if you call them white, they would be like, Absolutely not. You know what I mean? Like, they are very present. And it's like, yeah, and it's like, and it's not, they're not mixed. You know what I mean? They're like, they come from a lot of light skinned people. And they're like, I am we are all black people. So I'm very familiar with that. My grandmother's very, very light. My sister's like, I have a lot of, you know what I mean, like, yeah. So the funny thing for me is that, as a black person, it's like, the way I look at like, slash. And I was like, that looks like a black person, like you could immediately kind of lock it, like we can clock it. So it's funny to me, that easy with the whole book, the whole book, who seems to he? That man's from Louisiana. You don't know what light skinned black people look like, and you could, and then mouse who, I guess, because he knows her, but immediately clocks that that's a black woman.

Traci Thomas 17:29

Right?

Kara Brown 17:29

I was like, well, so--

Traci Thomas 17:32

that's what I think. One of the things that Walter Mosley is saying about whiteness is that black people, and I think there's a line about this later. Can trick themselves into believing in the power of whiteness if it benefits them. Like, there is something to be said about the sex scene between Coretta and Easy, and the sex scene between Daphne and not Easy, yeah, and Easy. Like, those are different things. And like, the worship of Daphne, and the way that he talks about having sex with her, and like the bath where she's cleansing him, and like the whole like whiteness of that and his obsession with her is just that, to me, felt like the only real thing that he was saying about whiteness was, like the way that black people can fool themselves into thinking that it's something special, even when, in this case, she's just, she's black, like the rest of us, she's just light as hell. And I think also, like the title devil in a blue dress. I mean, I think you just have to add white devil in a blue dress, and you kind of get, like, a little bit of what's going on here.

Kara Brown 18:40

Yeah. So, I mean, I would want to know, too, what you think of so, like, aside from Daphne being this passing black woman, I feel it was, it was giving, like, we are giving this whip. Like, listen, I know it's, it's the 40s. Shit is hard. Life is hard, yeah. But I was like, she, we were piling on with her, where I was like, what type of what, like, Who is this woman and and what is she doing, and the why of it? It sort of reminds me of, like, do you remember, like, the days of when we all watched scandal like, you know, in real time, and you had Melly, you know, the white Yes, first lady who was just like a bitch, like in the show, yes. And then they revealed that she had been raped by her husband's father. And it was, it was like, oh, that's why she the bitch. And it's like, oh, God, you know, I mean, it would like, it did start these conversations of like, right, using rape as sort of like, you know, a character, you know like to describe someone's character, or a character thing that like, yeah, yeah, is just how that's messed up and not helpful and reductive and whatever. And I was feeling that reading Daphne, where I was like, Okay, we're giving her these traumas that I think are meant to inform her behavior. Her, but in a way that maybe just because I'm existing now, made me roll my eyes.

Traci Thomas 20:06

Yeah, I mean, because she also has this, like, very, very bizarre paternal rape story at a zoo. But then also that is like, not exactly what happened.

Kara Brown 20:21

Well, someone said they didn't believe it.

Traci Thomas 20:23

But I think she says to him later, like, well, that's not exactly what happened. Was that she said, but maybe, but maybe, but maybe what she's saying is that the rape stuff did happen with the dad, but that he didn't leave the family because Frank killed him. Maybe that's what she's like, the twist of the story. Like she had told him this whole story about how, then how her dad left, and how she still loved him, and she knew that what they had was like tender and real, and all of that felt very not gonna pass in 2020. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's just not being written now. You just cannot write it in that way. You could write it, but you'd have to do it different. You'd have to give her more time to have a redemptive arc where she realizes that she's been abused and not just like I loved my daddy.

Kara Brown 21:10

And the way it related to he seemed to be, I'm gonna use a word from the time, like a floozy kind of like, yeah, seemed to be what they were suggesting, where she's sleeping with all these men. And I read that as like he's connecting, you know what I mean?

Traci Thomas 21:26

Her trauma with her sex life, but she's really, she's really only sleeping with two men, right? She's sleeping with easy and she's sleeping with Todd Carter.

Kara Brown 21:35

But then, didn't? She didn't? She also date Richard.

Traci Thomas 21:40

Oh, the the child pornography peddler? I thought she was just friends with him. I see this is what happened. I kept being like, wait what? I thought she had dated him too. Oh, she might have. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard for me to know for sure. Listeners, I know you are rolling your eyes because you're like, Traci, you're supposed to know. But I couldn't. I couldn't keep up. I even went back and tried to, like, read a synopsis, but it didn't have all the little details. Yeah, I think, I think that stuff, like the book, is also extremely back heavy, like he jams in so much stuff. But one of the things I wanted to read that he says about Daphne Ruby, and that mouse says it about Ruby and Easy is that they're taught. This is like at the day new mom, after we've after we figured everything out, and then mouse says she want to be white. All them years people telling her how she light skinned and beautiful, but all the time she knows that she can't have what white people have. So she pretend, and then she lose it. All she can love a white man, but all he can love is the white girl he thinks she is. And then easy says, What's that got to do with me? And mouse says, That's just like you easy. You learn stuff, and you be thinking like white men be thinking. You be thinking that's what's right for them, is what's right for me, for you. She look like she white, and you think like, you white, but brother, you don't know that you both poor niggas and a nigga ain't never gonna be happy, lest he accept what he is. Thank you for that dramatic reading. But I feel like that sort of, you know, the thesis of the book is like, when it comes down to it, she's trying to be something she's not. You're obsessed with her because you want what white people want and what white people have, and I think everything else is just sort of like a mess to get to that, like one jump.

Kara Brown 23:33

Well, it's interesting too, because, yes, I remember reading that, and I was like, okay, yeah, we're driving home. Yeah, we're driving home. But I'm thinking, like, other than her, other than the white woman, I'm like, okay, he wants a house, yeah? Which, I guess, you know, you could argue that, like at the time, you're like, you're talking about striving for things that only feel available to white people, but other than the house and, like, employment. I'm like, What else was he after that white people had, like, what else was he striving for that felt very white other than kind of like that security, which is, maybe that's all it is.

Traci Thomas 24:14

Well, I don't know. I'm thinking more. I think mouse is also sort of getting at that, like he was blinded by her whiteness, because he was thinking like, he couldn't see that she was actually black. Because he was thinking like white people, you know, like, like--

Kara Brown 24:28

Yeah, but then, in what other way was then I'm like, in what other ways was he thinking like white people?

Traci Thomas 24:33

Well, maybe because he was just letting the white people tell him what was happening, instead of actually thinking for himself and seeing the picture more clearly. I don't, I don't exactly know.

Kara Brown 24:40

I do feel like every time a white man said something to him, he'd be like, that. Don't sound right. Let me like he seemed to, he seemed to very quickly, like he caught, he clocked that. Like, was it out Alcott, like the first guy. He was like, Can't trust like he immediately was like, Can't trust this guy. He very quickly seemed to be able. To recognize that there were other they all had ulterior motives, and they were, in fact, using him for something else. So that's why I'm like that seemed--

Traci Thomas 25:11

This is after mouse reveals that he's killed Frank. And so he said, so easy. Says him like you didn't have to kill him. And he and mouse was like, what the hell you're talking about? And then that's when he says, You're just like, Ruby, like that. He believes that there's some sort of world and where like people can, like, you know, that there's like, this white paradise where like people can just exist, and we don't have to kill people who want to kill us. And like, I think maybe it's like, sort of talking about that black people are, like, more interested in what's in front of us and why people, like, want to believe in these ideals that are just not true, to like, what's actually happening. Maybe?

Kara Brown 25:52

It sounds like what he is saying, whether or not I'm agreeing with it, but that does seem to be like--

Traci Thomas 25:57

I think that's what he's saying, whether or not it's proved beared out, and the rest of the story is sort of, but like, that's clearly what Walter Mosley wants to say to us, you know, like, that's the message, let's take a quick break, and then I want to talk about the house. Okay, we're back. I want to talk about the house because I actually think it's one of the most important parts of the entire book. So the reason that easy does all of this stuff goes with DeWitt Albright tries to find Daphne, wants the money is because he owns a house in Los Angeles in 1948 as a black person. For those of you who don't know a lot about black American history, shame on you. But also, there's a thing called the great migration that easy is a huge part of it's black people moving from the south to the north and the west between 1917 and the 1970s basically post World War One, up through the end of Vietnam, let's say, and the reason that they left was for racial terror for opportunities, etc, etc, etc. Owning property was basically not possible for black people in the American South at the time. So I think that this, like owning the house as the reason he does stuff is maybe one of the most compelling reasons for someone to do dumb fuckery, like, even, like, sometimes I'll read like a romance novel, and it'll be like this and that and this. And I'm like, if you guys had just talked to each other, this would be solved. Like, I felt like this was a strong enough why, that you could understand a person who's just come back from a war, having witnessed all these things, having left his home, and feeling like this is a piece of property and land that I own that belongs to me, and no matter what it is mine. And meanwhile, in other parts of the country, there's these stories coming back of like, black people who have bought homes in white neighborhoods where the white people are driving them out or torturing them, or pulling them out of their house and murdering them. Like there's all these crazy stories around property. And so I think, like, historically, this is the most believable and important thing in the entire book, yeah.

Kara Brown 28:08

And coupled with him getting laid off because he was talking back, right, it seemed to just be this reaction, right, that he was kind of mouthy with his--

Traci Thomas 28:17

Yeah. He was like, lazy. Didn't do what they wanted him to do when they wanted.

Kara Brown 28:22

To his Italian ex boss. He and the scene where he went back and wouldn't apologize, I was like, that was pretty satisfying. I was like, yeah. And so the combination of not wanting to sort of degrade himself and grovel for his job back, but then still needing to hang on to the house was actually like a legitimate like, yeah, that's a really strong reason for going forth and doing these things. Because I was like, Yeah, you're you're protecting this thing that is very important to you, and also your previous means of maintaining it. Now feel like not something you're willing, you know, you're not willing to sort of give up your dignity to continue on. And I was like, yeah, that's I was like, Sure, Easy,

Traci Thomas 29:08

Right. And that's the whole reason why someone would uproot their life in one place to move to another place, right? It's like the whole point of him coming to California is so that he could own land, is so that he could have upward mobility. So the idea that he would do anything to hold on to that felt justifiable, at least, but like, extremely compelling to me, I think, is how it is.

Kara Brown 29:32

I would say, I will say, in other mysteries that I've read, it's generally this, like, I'm curious. It's usually like, it's a lot of like, I'm just so when it's when it's an when it's like a civilian detective, yeah, we know when it's a real detective, okay, they have to go solve the mystery. But, but when it's a person who gets sucked in, it's like they're just a curious person. Or, for example, in one of the series I read series earlier, the three of them, but, um, she was a mystery writer, and so part of the reason. That she fall was following this mystery, because it was like, oh, maybe there's juice for the book. Or, like, you know, and this feels like a much more solid reason to go down a path that's clearly dangerous, right? Then, oh, I'm bored in this scene. Like, I'm right. I'm just sort of like being nosy, right?

Traci Thomas 30:18

Because, like, as the alarm bells are going off. It's like, okay, but he still does it. And so we need a why, and this why totally worked for me. Usually this, usually this part is always, like, the least compelling part in the thriller, or Mr. I'm always like, okay, but like, why are you doing this? Like, go home, take a bath.

Kara Brown 30:36

Well, it's, it's funny too, because I, I was prepared for, like, the racial politics to be off. Like, I already primed myself from that. So, sort of, like, I'm not gonna let myself get too bogged down by by this and it, you're right, like I was flying through it. It was, like a fun read. I think I it just was, like, the ending, you were like, ah, what did I like if the book were twice as long like, if I had been reading it and realized there was twice as much book left, that would have made more sense to me, but because it did all, just like I'm introduced to people, these things are happening, oh, this is interesting. This is interesting, and it's wrapped up in such a, like, quick, kind of random way that, to me, is what so that, so that, when you edit it, you were like, Huh? Even though, while I've been reading it, I had been, I had been like, okay, yeah, here we go.

Traci Thomas 31:27

Same. I was with it. I was with it. I mean, I rarely say a book could have been longer, but I think this one could have, like, we needed a little more fleshing out in the last 50 pages, because so much happened. I mean, mouse shows up on page 150, and the book ends on 219 mouse kills like nine people.

Kara Brown 31:46

Here we talk about the mayoral candidate with the weird traffic child, which we barely, barely touched on, and then he's murdered. And you're like, Who the hell killed him? And for what?You know?

Traci Thomas 32:00

And then we find out that Daphne killed him. Why did she kill him? Do you know?

Kara Brown 32:07

It's I, my guess. I thought it was because the child was being abused and she was empathizing with the abused child, and so she killed that's what I thought that was. Because I'm like, Why the hell else do we have this? I see child here, if not to be sort of, you know, something that's motivating death.

Traci Thomas 32:29

Okay, that's what I thought. This makes sense. Okay, thank you. But I, you know, I literally have a list of everyone that I came up with, who's dead, and then I have who killed them. And then next to some of them, I just have why. And then for the other ones, I have the reason. I think that we were told why. I don't think that easy, kills anyone. No, he doesn't, which is crazy. I'm like, You should be killing people. He's gone to jail like three times for allegedly killing people. That hasn't killed a single person.

Kara Brown 32:57

I will say I understand how, especially when this book came out, and it's, you know, there's a, it's a black man at the center of it. And it, it is not following some of these mystery tropes, but it does scratch a similar itch, because you're it's like he actually can't kill anyone, because if he's the detective, you know what I mean? Like, the detective can't be killing people too. Like, that's true, that's true. That feels like mayhem and not and so, yeah, he kind of can't, but he's like, surrounded by her.

Traci Thomas 33:29

Just like everyone he knows is murdered, like literally everyone he knows is murdered or murdering.

Kara Brown 33:35

My favorite was, who was the junior? The bouncer?

Traci Thomas 33:40

Oh yes, Junior killed Richard the sex child sex trafficker.

Kara Brown 33:45

Which you're just like, oh, and whatever Junior's reason for killing this guy. It's like, I guess that's okay, fine. Whatever you felt like you needed to kill him. But you're like, why do I care that he killed this guy? And Why are you killing? Why is he so casually murdering people?

Traci Thomas 34:03

And his reason for killing was because he was trafficking the child.

Kara Brown 34:08

Was, I thought it was that he, that man owed him some money, and he went over there and he tried to, I bet that's what it was like. They got into some sort of disagreement.

Traci Thomas 34:18

Oh, I No, because he he did go over there, because he took him home, because he was drunk. Remember, we see him early, and he's like, the drunk guy at the bar, and then, yeah, wasn't it like, take him?

Kara Brown 34:31

Wasn't it like he was I thought it was like he was supposed to pay him something, and,

Traci Thomas 34:38

Oh, and then he got mad, and he just, like, snapped?

Kara Brown 34:41

I don't know. I think so, because why is Junior killing him for being a child trafficker?

Traci Thomas 34:49

Because he likes kids. I don't know. He just thinks he's icky. I don't fucking know. But the best part is, at the very end of the book, the book ends on 219, at 216, I. After easy is like, I got Carter to clear me so the cops are gonna leave me alone. And he's like, you know, no big deal. And then literally, at the end of the book, he's like, he's talking to them, and he's like, you know, you're gonna spend the rest of your life in jail. And then someone says you could try Junior Forney against that print, and he says, Who? And he says, the bouncer at John's. He might fit it. I'm like, easy. You just sold this man out at the end of the book. Like, we made it to the very end. What happened to like, you know, don't talk to the cops. He's over here being like, by the way, I'm clear. But have you ever heard of junior? Might wanna check him out.

Kara Brown 35:38

It seems so unnecessary because he'd already gotten off.

Traci Thomas 35:41

That's what I'm saying. I'm like, yeah, and earlier in the book, he's like, I know nobody's gonna talk to the police because we don't talk to the police. And then he's like, by the way, just hot tip for you guys. You know Junior. Here's his number. This is his mom, his blood type. Just check it all out.

Kara Brown 35:56

Also. Okay, so Junior killed Richard. Richard was the child trafficker who presumably trafficked the mayoral candidates child to him, yes, and we care about the mayoral candidate because, because Todd, something with Todd?

Traci Thomas 36:18

Because Todd, yeah, so Okay, did you watch the movie?

Kara Brown 36:23

I was going to and then I decided not to, because I didn't know how different they would be. So I was like, Oh, I don't want to talk about the book. You know. I was like, I don't want to talk about the movie stuff, but--

Traci Thomas 36:33

I'm going to spoil the movie a little bit for you, please. I didn't, I watched it last night. Okay, okay. I Oh, right, that's right. You sit on Sam. Do I don't like spoilers, because my whole joy of like reading is trying to figure things out, so I hate to be spoiled. So hot take the movie is better than the book. Yeah, that's unbelievable, because the movie makes it make sense. In the movie, we get all the way up to the scene where he sort of, like, rescues her and takes her to, like, the safe house place. It's not the exact same. They do not have sex. They do not kiss the white and him. There's no sex between him and Daphne. There is sex with him and Coretta. What they do is, in that scene, he's like, There's pictures of the mayoral candidate Tehran with the child. Daphne has spent $7,000 to get these pictures because Tehran knows that she's black, and Todd Carter, yes. And Todd because he's blackmailing her, basically. And Todd Carter, her white boyfriend, he is also running for mayor, so they're competing, and he drops out of the race because he finds out she's black, and doesn't want this to happen, and so she buys the pictures in the hopes So Todd so Albright is actually hired by Tehran in the movie to get the pictures and get her so he also knows she's black. That's much better. It makes so much more sense. So Albright is working for Tehran. Tehran knows she's black. Carter knows she's black, and Tehran and Carter are against each other for the mayoral race. She does not kill Tehran in the book or in the movie, there's he doesn't die. Basically, the Carter's just able to run again, and then she leaves town. Her and Frank leave town. Frank also does not die in the movie.

Kara Brown 38:38

I think what this is helping me identify with a book where easy's drive makes a lot of sense. And I think what was losing us was everyone else's was very wonky, and they're doing very dangerous, serious shit for very flimsy reasons. Yes, in the version you just talked about in the movie. It's like, oh, that's what they shored up. Like, I imagine, like, that's what they had to fix for the movie, because then I don't need that big of a reason for killing, like, especially, like, in a time with no DNA testing, I'm like, yeah, it was much easier to get away with shit, and it was just a way, you know, like, I would believe that that's the way you'd solve this problem, right? And, yeah, it's like, that's what was hard with the book. Is like you were thrown a lot of murder, a lot of things for reasons that didn't make sense. Easy seemed to be the only person who was kind of moving in a way that you could track and solving for that would would really shore up the story.

Traci Thomas 39:42

Yeah. And also, joppy still kills Coretta, but it's an accident in the movie, he's supposed to just go scare her, because she's gonna talk about Daphne, or, like, she knows about the pictures, or something. Yeah. So he's supposed to scare her, and then he ends up killing her. So, like, it just everything in the movie. Movie is around Daphne being white and Tehran being a sexual predator. And the rest of it is, yeah, there's there's no superfluous things, like, there's no murder of Frank there's just, like, less death, more streamlined passing sexual abuse together. Also, Daphne does not have a sexual abuse storyline in the movie.

Kara Brown 40:23

I was getting a little bit it felt a little Chinatown where you're like, Okay, I'm in Los Angeles at this period of time, and it's like politics and like, it's, it's that like noir type vibe, yeah, but, but nothing was making sense. And so to lean into even just the politics of that, of like, they're both running for mayor, there's scandals that feels like, yeah, like that that feeds into that kind of noir, again, Chinatown type thing that I'm like, Oh yeah, I get like, and you have all these powerful people who are operating in a way that's like, beyond your grasp, like you kind of can't do anything about it, and you get caught up in it. And now, like, Here I am, just this one individual, you know, like trying to do right, which he feels like, you know, maybe, maybe, if he had who gave him notes, who gave him notes, maybe someone,

Traci Thomas 41:16

I mean, it's, this is his debut. So I think one of the things that's really interesting is, like, usually I feel like with authors their debut, even if it's a hit, doesn't supersede the rest of their career. But I feel like Walter Mosley is still known for this book, and I have to assume that he's gotten better as a writer. He's written like, 60 books, you know. But I think it's interesting that, like a lot of people's introduction to him is his first book, because I don't think that happens a lot. I mean, I think, like, Amy Tan, yes, I think Toni Morrison, maybe with The Bluest Eye, but most people know her. Her best book is beloved like, I think that there, there is another book that people read of hers that, like helps them to sort of contextualize everything. And for him, it's like his greatest book was his first book, and the movie also becomes this huge phenomenon. And so I think people go back to the book in a way that maybe they wouldn't, if not for Gen Zelle like being hot.

Kara Brown 42:12

And if you think about it in terms of, you had to write an origin story, which can be hard and is not necessarily indicative of, you know, like, what the rest of the stories are going to look like. It's because I feel like, even when I think about it that way, like, to me, it's very obvious that easy, can't kill anyone if you know he's going to go become a detective. If you sit down saying, I'm starting a detective series, yeah, you cannot have this man killing people in this book, because that's going to look crazy on book 47 or whatever, right?

Traci Thomas 42:43

But because then he's a mercenary, or He's a gangster, he's not a detective.

Kara Brown 42:47

Yes, exactly. So if you know that, and you know that that's hopefully what you're played in doing in the future, that then when you end the book where you're it's like, all these people have been killed, but he's done nothing. It's like, okay, that makes a little bit more sense. If I know that this is going to continue, and I'm going to keep following this character and like, I'm going to keep seeing like, it tells me something about how they operate in the world. So it almost feels like a just, it's a really long origin story, yeah, you know, that's right, yeah.

Traci Thomas 43:19

And I also think, like you said, Who's giving him notes? And I actually wonder how much, how much went into this book, because he was sort of the first to do this, like this black mystery writer, you know, you know, like he's, he's a legend in the field. He invent. I mean, everyone gives him credit for inventing the black detective. Obviously he didn't. But like so, I do wonder, knowing what I know about publishing in 2025 how little goes into black debut authors. I'm wondering how much feedback he did get. Like, I'm wondering if, you know, he was sort of, like, they're like, this is good enough. Like, no one's gonna read this. Who cares? Let's churn it out. And then when the movie becomes a thing, and, you know, people like it, and they decide to make the movie a lot more effort and money goes into it, because you get Denzel Washington, and it's like, Okay, we got to flesh this out. Like, there's only, like, we can only make this work if we can make this work in a way that he probably did not have that kind of time and attention. Yeah, in the late 80s, early 90s, as the book's coming out.

Kara Brown 44:17

And to me, the notes are mostly about the mystery part of it. Like, that's, you know, like, I think the the color of the book is like, yeah, that's there. It's more like--

Traci Thomas 44:26

It's like, who did what and why? Like, someone like, this doesn't make sense, yeah?

Kara Brown 44:30

Like, Hey, man, you're writing a mystery. Let's just shore up a couple things, or maybe let's get rid of a couple characters, or whatever. Yeah, that's the kind of, that means, the kind of feedback that I'm like, oh, was, was that there? Because clearly, it's sort of given what you're saying about the movie. It's sort of the most obvious thing you would sit down to do once you're revisiting the material.

Traci Thomas 44:50

Totally, totally, I want to talk about the character of mouse quickly, because he to your point of, like, easy, can't do anything wrong. Like, he can't. Kill anybody is the foil he he's the mercenary. We learn about him early. You know, as soon as easy meets DeWitt, he's like, he reminds me of a fellow I knew back home, my best friend, mouse, a fucking crazy guy. And we find out that mouse killed his stepfather, who was like, holding money, and we find out that mouse loves to kill people, especially for money, and is a cold blooded killer and a great hang, great guy best friend, yeah, but also morally bankrupt when it comes to money and murder. I mean, to the point that when he does show up at 150 easy is like, I can't tell him that Daphne has money, because he'll just kill her and take Yeah, he only is here to kill people.

Kara Brown 45:47

Something that feels very obvious, that's only now really jumping into my head is if I'm also reminded that they're all veterans. I wonder if like the way we're looking at a veteran committee murder feels different, like from from World War, if it's like, well, they've seen some shit, or they were, they were, they'd been in this space where this is what they were told to do, and like, that's impacted them. And so I wonder if anything about them being veterans is supposed to explain these tendencies a little bit.

Traci Thomas 46:20

Well, one of the notes I had taken was how I thought that the like depiction of PTSD was really interesting in the book, like easy is so violent and obsessed with violence, like the scene at the pier where the white people are harassing him, and he, like, has this like fantasy of like murdering them and destroying them, and like he sees the eyes of the Germans and like, that's part to me, I was, I was I was surprised by because I'd never heard anybody really talk about that with this book. But that really jumped out at me, like the flashing fact the voice that he has that comes on page like 99 that tells him what to do, and only shows up in the worst moment and is just cut and dry. Do this? Do that? I'm like, oh, that's like the personification of PTSD, right? It's like he shuts down and hits fight or flight. And I think throughout the book, the violence that's running through easy's head is really, really interesting.

Kara Brown 47:20

Yeah. Yeah. And I will say for me, with mouse, I mean, he's, he's like, a scary character. But I did find it very funny that one. He was like, Oh yeah, that's Ruby. That was a lot, lady like, immediately. And I know it's very funny that, as I read it, his kind of whole reason for coming down is because, like, his, like, his girlfriend is pissed at him, and he's like, Oh, I come back and bring some money. Maybe she'll take me back. And I was like, You came down here and did all this shit to get your girl back. Like that sort of seems to have been his main motivator for all of this. And then he's like, got my money. Maybe she'll take me back now. And I was like, he's kind of funny, if he weren't so terrifying.

Traci Thomas 48:01

So in the book, he's very scary, but in the movie, he's played by Don Cheadle, and he has a little bit more of that, like, just gotta kill people. Like, it's definitely more like, Oh shucks, murderer, as opposed to, like, killer. And he's very drunk. In the movie, he's sort of like goof, a little goofy, which is really different than how I had imagined him. But I actually think it makes, again, more sense, because you already have the joppy character, who's kind of scary and big, yes, and mouse was sort of the same in the book as joppy, scary and big.

Kara Brown 48:36

Easy is he's a pretty like, straight laced guy. For the most, like he seems pretty seems pretty serious. Yeah, and so having someone who is a little funnier, who's a little, like, more flamboyant, or whatever, does feel like a good foil to the easy we're presented with.

Traci Thomas 48:55

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think, I think mouse in the book still provides, like, a little bit of that levity, because he just shows up and is just killed.

Kara Brown 49:05

Like his zoot suit just ready to kill.

Traci Thomas 49:10

That's exactly right. Okay. I'm trying to think, if there's anything else that I wanted to make sure we well, can we just quickly talk about that insane sex scene?

Kara Brown 49:19

Oh, my God, you go first.

Traci Thomas 49:22

I mean, like, so they kiss early in the book. And I was like, What's going on here? Then they go to him.

Kara Brown 49:30

also, she they make a point to be like, he kissed him, yes? And he's like, Oh, my God, the white lady kissed me, right?

Traci Thomas 49:38

And then they go to the safe house, and he takes a bath. She puts him in the bath, where he's in a bath, and she's washing him,

Kara Brown 49:47

Wasn't he hurt?

Traci Thomas 49:49

Oh, yes, because he'd been beaten up by the cops. Yeah, that's right. So she gives him a bath, and she's washing him from his toes to his head. And he we find out quite early on in the bath that he. Has a large erection. She like, lifts it his penis up to clean, and then she's like, I have to pee. And go, yeah, and peace while he's in the bath. And then they start having sex. And then have so much sex that it hurts his penis that she's, like, turned on by that they continue having so much sex, and then she's like, I love you. And he's like, I love you. We love each other. And then he's like, but don't you love Frank? And that's when she's like, You have no idea my relationship with Frank. This is called acting. And then they have a lot more sex, like, it's just so much sex. The writing is so weird. There's so much I love you, which is bizarre.

Kara Brown 50:45

Then they go have that weird Chinese dinner. Oh yes, they go to that Chinese restaurant, and--

Traci Thomas 50:51

That's how she confesses, confesses the story about her dad, right?

Kara Brown 50:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it was out of nowhere, like, it was very surprising, like, not necessarily that they, like, hooked up, but it was just like, Oh, we're really getting it, like, like--

Traci Thomas 51:10

We're really going into a sex scene.

Kara Brown 51:12

And, and for a book that isn't very long, like, an in a disproportionate amount of pages, I would argue, yeah, to which, because it has very little ultimate relevance in the story. Like, it's not like they've actually fallen in love, right? I guess it's tying back to what mouse tells, tells him at the end, about, you know, you're thinking white and like, I guess, right? But I feel like we already kind of got, like, if that's the point you were making, we already sort of got that, because you would tell that he was starting to become enamored with her, right? So I'm kind of like, what was the point? Like, what were we supposed what exactly were we supposed to take from this? Because you dedicated a lot of writing space, yeah.

Traci Thomas 52:01

A lot of space to this, like, magical white woman sex scene. And, like, the love part, it's just, it was so--

Kara Brown 52:10

It was they love each other. You're right, I saw her.

Traci Thomas 52:12

But she also loves Todd Carter so much, yeah? And I'm like, like, that's her real true love, and he knows her better than any like that whole part. I mean, I think your overall point of like Easy has very clear motivations and is very clear to the reader and everyone else is extremely confusing. And so when he interacts with all these people, I'm just like, what is happening, which is part of the reason why me, a person who takes extensive notes as I read for book club, is like, Wait, what happened in that scene? Because there's so many scenes in so many places, and nobody makes sense except for Easy.

Kara Brown 52:49

Well, I The other thing with easy is that throughout the book, he's very careful, like he's very, very careful about who he's talking to, how he's talking to them, what he's revealing, what he's letting people know, what he tells the cops. He's just very he's, he's, he's very careful. This was insane, so I'm like, in what like, and it was, it like, you could tell he was struck. He was sort of, like, attracted to her and whatever. But it wasn't like, oh my god, I'm so obsessed with her. I'm overcome. I'm throwing all caution to the wind. It was like, You did something very careless, and just sort of, you know, where I'm like, it just felt unlike the person we have been with for the whole book, with not a lot of lead up between them.

Traci Thomas 53:38

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right, it was, it was surprising.

Kara Brown 53:42

And it just did sort of feel like a man wrote it where it's just, like--

Traci Thomas 53:45

For sure.

Kara Brown 53:46

All of a sudden we're giving the bags, like, yeah, they've had very little, like, interaction that is romantic or flirty or anything. They've had, sort of like they've had, like, intimate, you know, it's like the murder and he's protecting her. You know, they find a body, but they haven't had there's no vibes. There's very few vibes between them. And then, but all of a sudden, they get to the house, and it's like all bets are off. It's like, this does sound like a man wrote this.

Traci Thomas 54:12

For sure. And I think again, like that speaks to the moment of like, this black guy getting to write this book. He's clearly writing to other black men like his audience is clearly black men, which I think is great, because I do think, like in the literary landscape, even today, there are not that many books that are written to black men. There's a lot more books that are written to black women and obviously white women and white men. But he really does sort of carve out this space for himself. And I think he does it because he's like, who needs backstory? Let's get to the fucking fucking so much, all day, every day, inside, outside, upstairs, downstairs at the Chinese restaurant, hey, hey. Like, it's just like, let's get it.

Kara Brown 54:57

To that point, like, I definitely get. Get why. I'm like, I get why this is popular. I get why, like, and I'm like, yeah, getting a news like, not a new segment of people to read, but like an un an underserved market, like, I get why easy is an appealing character to men, to black men, like he is. You know, he's like a quote, unquote, he's like, a pretty, upstanding guy. He has a lot of, like, pride. He is a hard worker. He has this house, he has these goals. He's like, a man, you know, I'm like, I get and, you know, he, you see him mostly do the right thing. So it's like, I get why this would be appealing. And you're kind of like, you've presented me with this person. He's got caught up in some shit, and now it's solved. Yeah. Like, I can see how that would satisfy a lot of people well.

Traci Thomas 55:46

And I feel like I as much as I'm like, harping on the little details overall, I sort of like this book, like a great time. It was sort of a mess, but I was like, This is great. What a mess. And it was only at the end where I was like, have no clue what happened, but I was with it the entire way. Even in the sex scene, I was like, Sure, they're fucking. Like, yeah, of course. Like, it didn't feel so out of left field. It just was confusing. I also think in the timeline of Walter Moses, like, this is his debut. It comes out in 1990 he was born in 1952 so he's 38 years old when the book comes out. The character of easy is super young. I think he's like, 25 or 28 or something. So it that also tracks of just being like, I know I'm not supposed to kiss this white woman, but if she kisses me like, it's odd. You know?

Kara Brown 56:31

He also gets with his friend girlfriend while he's in the other room. So you're like, I guess this. You're like, sure, yeah.

Traci Thomas 56:37

And I think maybe that is a character trait, like he's really cautious, except for when it comes to sex, like, he's just a horny 20 something, like, God, that's like, the way to get to him, that and alcohol.

Kara Brown 56:49

Yeah, it was. I mean, again, the way I had been reading these mysteries recently was because, like, I don't really like that, like, guilty pleasure, like pool book. Like, I'm like, we know, we mean, but like, whatever, you can read anything by pool, but there is that, like, yeah, a book that it's like a, it's like a nice, dry white wine that goes down easy. You're like, and it was like $12 it's like a $12 bottle that goes down really easy. And I'm like, hell, yeah, I'll drink that. And I feel like these books, a lot of these mysteries, for me are in that category of, like, get me the lady out in the house, and she's following the thing, and I'm getting all these descriptors about tea time, even, honestly, I really liked the scene at that Chinese restaurant when, when they were like, you can get it with the meats, and you can get it with this, and you can get three things. Yeah, I was like, I actually, I was like, it was and for that period of time, you like, in the 40s, that part of La having, you know, all of these different people of color in this city, and where they were and how they were living. I was like, that's actually really interesting and readable. So like, yeah, no, I too, yes. Like, there are a lot of things you can harp at, but I'm like, ultimately, it did feel like that $12 bottle of white wine where I'm like, yeah.

Traci Thomas 58:01

It's exactly yeah. And I think that's hard to do. Like, I don't think, I think it's easy to pick, like, a book like this apart, because we're assholes. But I feel like it's not easy to write something like this. I feel like it that that usually becomes extremely bad quickly, you know, like, it's like, I cannot finish this. I already have a wine headache. I also think we didn't mention this and we're out of time. But I do want to just say I loved seeing LA. I loved it living here, knowing all the different neighborhoods, knowing that he was driving to Malibu from watts, I was like, Baby, what? Like at 9pm?

Kara Brown 58:37

When he talked about, you know, like East LA and like, the the Mexican, his Mexican friend, and like, all of like, that community in that neighborhood. And I was like, Yeah, this was right in, like, I am a little bit, he's like, driving down La Cienega. It's like, Yeah, I know La Cienega too. Yes, totally. He did paint. He did, he did paint a picture of LA at that period of time that felt specific and like satisfying and interesting and like, I was like, yeah, here we are.

Traci Thomas 59:08

I think that's right. I think that's exactly right. Here we are. Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley. Well, we've made it to the end. Everybody, make sure you listen to the end and end of today's episode to find out what our June book club pick will be. And Kara brown this, I know I harassed you to get you to come on the show, but it was fucking worth it. You are a dream guest. You remain a dream guest. Thank you so so much for doing this with me.

Kara Brown 59:31

Thank you for having me. And you know an ask in an email is not harassment, and--

Traci Thomas 59:37

I harassed you at the party, I like, ran up to you and was like, I have to meet you. I'm a fan.

Kara Brown 59:42

No, but this, this was very fun. And also, I don't know that I would have read this book otherwise. So thank you for that.

Traci Thomas 59:49

Yay.All right, and everybody else, we will see you in the Stacks. All right.

Y'all, thank you so much for listening, and thank you. Again to Kara Brown for being my guest. Okay, now it's time for what you've all been waiting for, the announcement of our June book club pick, which is the Art Thief, a true story of love crime and a dangerous obsession by Michael Finkel, this work of narrative non fiction is about a prolific art thief who stole but never sold over $2 billion worth of art. It has been described as, quote, The most remarkable True Crime narratives of our time, a riveting story of art theft, love and insatiable hunger to possess beauty at all costs. We will discuss this book on Wednesday, June 25 and you can tune in next week to find out who our guest will be. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks to join the Stacks Pack community and check out my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com, make sure you're subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review for more from the stacks. Follow us on social media at the stacks pod on Instagram, threads and Tiktok, and check out our website, the stackspodcast.com. Today's episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas, with production assistance from Wy'Kia Frelot. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Wy'Kia Frelot
Next

Ep. 372 Apropos of Nothing, There’s This Book with Frederick Joseph