Ep. 370 Between Oprah and Obama with Kara Brown

Written By Guest User

Today on The Stacks, we’re talking with screenwriter and producer, Kara Brown. She shares what she looks for when adapting a book to the screen, and the key to making sure an adaptation is a success. We also discuss Kara’s love of massive tomes, the three writers that inspired her career, and her problematic fave.

The Stacks Book Club pick for May is Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley. We will discuss on Wednesday, April 30 with Kara Brown returning as our guest.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Kara Brown 0:00

The medium in which someone chooses to create something is important. And sometimes a play is not a good movie. Sometimes it is, but sometimes a book is not a good TV show or whatever. You know, to me, the example I always think of is The Great Gatsby, which on the page stunning, like, like the pros is, is amazing that story is not a good story. That's why, that's why it's not very good when you adapt it. And I actually think not always, but oftentimes I think for me, I think kind of the quote, unquote worse the book is, the more interested I am in adapting it. Music.

Traci Thomas 0:44

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today, I am beyond thrilled to welcome to the podcast Kara Brown. Kara is a writer and producer you might have seen her work on. She-Hulk,The Other Black Girl, or Grown-ish. And today, Kara and I talk about how she became a hardcore reader, what she looks for when adapting books to screen, and the book she was assigned three times in school, but still deeply hates. Don't forget our book club pick for May is Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley. Kara Brown will be back to discuss that book with me on Wednesday, May 28 so be sure to read along and tune in. Quick reminder, everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. And if you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, if you want perks like bonus episodes or even more hot takes from me, you can support the show by going to patreon.com/the stacks, and joining the Stacks pack, or subscribe to my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com, all right, now it is time for my conversation with Kara Brown.

Okay, party people, I'm so excited very often, not very often, sometimes I talk about this list that I made when I start before I ever record an episode of the podcast, and it was a dream guest list. And it includes people like Barack Obama, Oprah, Winfrey, John Kroc, our one of my favorite authors, and it also includes today's guest, Kara Brown. I became a fan of Cara Brown from keep it. And I just sort of always was like, she seems really cool. And so I met her at a party. Well, actually, I walked up to her at a party and said, You're on the dream list. Come on my podcast. So ladies and gentlemen, I am thrilled to introduce to you on the stacks. Finally, after seven years, Kara Brown, oh well.

Kara Brown 2:39

I mean, I love to be squeezed in between Barack Obama and Oprah. I'll take it.

Traci Thomas 2:46

Yeah, it's definitely high praise. I mean, and like, let's be really real. I asked you one time to come on the show, and you said yes. And so my hope is that that means that your friends, Barack and Oprah will all like, I haven't shown a shot yet with any of you.

Kara Brown 3:01

You know what? I know? I will get them. I will hit our text thread right after this, and I'll let them know how it goes.

Traci Thomas 3:08

You'll be like, hey Barry.

Kara Brown 3:12

Hey guys!

Traci Thomas 3:12

Can you guys do me this solid?

Kara Brown 3:14

We'll talk about it in brunch. You know, our regular brunch. We'll talk about it.

Traci Thomas 3:18

Then next time I see Yeah, well, we met at the blacklist brunch, and when I first met Franklin Leonard, who has done this podcast, I was telling him that that Oprah was a dream guest. And he was like, Oh, well, next time I see her. And I was like, I'll die.

Kara Brown 3:32

You know what's funny, too about Franklin? He manages to do that, and it doesn't. He doesn't sound like an asshole, like, somehow it, like, it totally I don't know if it's his tone, I don't know if it's his voice. Like, and I, you know, he is trying to be helpful, yeah? But I'm like, yeah, he's one of the few people who can do that. And I'm not like, my eyes are not popping out of my head.

Traci Thomas 3:56

Well, I'm also just like, Oh, if you've got it like that with Oprah, I don't care. I want you to tell me, because if I ever had it like that with Oprah, I would be telling every I'd be like, Oh, next time I see Oh, next time I go to Montecito, like, we'll check in. I'll see again. I'll see what I can do. You know that's for sure. Um, okay, enough about Oprah, our bestie. Let's talk about you. So I always kind of have people introduce themselves. I don't, you don't need to do, like, a big professional thing, but can you just tell us, like, a Can you tell us, like a little bit where you're from, a little professional maybe, like your relationship to books? Just give us a little sprinkling Yes.

Kara Brown 4:29

So I grew up in Seattle, though I do have a very fun story that I will tell you about me and reading. So until I was seven, we lived in Dallas, Texas, and I went to this school, and I was in the first grade, and my class had two reading groups. So it's an all girls school, that class had two reading groups. And one day, I noticed that one group is reading like flimsy, kind of thin paperback books, and the other group is reading these, like bigger hardback books. Books that were clearly more advanced. I was in the flimsy paperback book reading group, and my parents were like, Yeah, you came home pissed, like I figured I'm like, you know, six. And I was like, Oh, these people think I'm dumb, like I can read. And so I started reading constantly. And I do remember this like I was staying up late and I was reading, like when my my dad used to driving to school. At that time, I would read the whole car ride to school, just like, constantly, constantly, and then I bumped myself up to the higher reading group.

Traci Thomas 5:35

So you're like a professional, competitive reader, and have been training for this your whole life. Here's

Kara Brown 5:40

the thing. I am motivated by spite. So okay, me too. And I am like, I can lock in. So the worst thing you could do to me is like, make me pay attention to something, you know, like, there's a lot of stuff I'm just not really paying attention to you because I have other things to worry about. And then when I figure it out, that's what you don't want. Because when all of my attention is now on something, I'm like, Oh, it's a wrap. I'm like, I'm done. So, yeah, I just spite read myself up a reading group, and have been a reader since then, and

Traci Thomas 6:10

you still like reading. It wasn't like you did this then you were like, no more books ever again.

Kara Brown 6:14

No. And I think I was like, I like to read, and I didn't clock that, like they were keeping track of it. You know what I mean? Like, it didn't clock. Like, what was, you didn't

Traci Thomas 6:23

realize that there was some sort of analysis going on, and that's how you got placed. Yeah, the flimsy group, yes, yes, got it. Are you still friends with any of those people from that class? I there's

Kara Brown 6:33

a couple, I kind of know, because that's from our, like, Dallas era, and we moved when I was seven, so I don't know that they would remember, but my my dad specifically really remembers, because he was like, in the car with me every morning as I was reading.

Traci Thomas 6:49

Was he inspired by this? Or is it like a joke? Kara's so intense. Like, what's the sort of read in the internal community of your family?

Kara Brown 6:59

I think they were like, sounds like Kara. They were like, That's when's your birthday? What's your sign? I'm a Scorpio.

Traci Thomas 7:07

So, okay, so does this track? I don't know a lot about Scorpio.

Kara Brown 7:09

I'm not an astrology person, um, so I think I am competitive. And I think it's also it's like, oh, they think I'm dumb. I think that's how I interpreted it. And so I was like, Oh no, no, no, no. Like, just because I haven't shown you, just because I'm not trying to write go off for everyone. So, yeah, I think it is very much in line with my character, yeah. So then, love this story, yeah. So that's, there's that story. Oh, yeah. So then after I mostly grew up in Seattle, I was always, you know, was then always a big reader. I loved English. So when I went to college, I was an English major, which, you know, is just like paying all of that money to make someone make you read. Where did you go to college? I went to Tufts.

Traci Thomas 8:00

Oh, that's where my sister in law, she's a professor there.

Kara Brown 8:03

Oh, really, yeah, yeah, out in Medford.

Traci Thomas 8:06

Elephant, yes.

Kara Brown 8:07

The jumbo, yes. Oh my gosh, I was, I was a tour guide, so I know all about the Jumbo. That's so funny.

Traci Thomas 8:15

Okay, so you were an English major. There was it, when you were an English major, was there like, a focus, or is it just broad people have focus?

Kara Brown 8:26

Yeah, I was kind of general. And I would say the most it was most helpful or not. So obviously, right? Like, as an English major, you're reading a lot, but you're writing a lot, and okay, I discovered pretty early in my college career that I could write an essay, like the night before and get like, an A minus or a B plus, and I was like, oh, so it really did not incentivize me to, like, start writing, but it's really, I mean, I was a good.

Traci Thomas 8:57

Your teacher should have been like, Kara, you're dumb. And then you would have been like, Oh, really big. Yeah, exactly I would have, I'll be writing this,

Kara Brown 9:04

but I was a good writer in high school, and so I think then when I got to college, I was like, Oh, I'm a good writer. Like, I figured that out, that, like, I could write, well, right? Which was like, good to know. But then I tended to, just like I tended to do a lot of real procrastinating with like that work. But it was helpful, because I was like, Okay, this is a thing that isn't a skill I have, that isn't necessarily, like, it's not so difficult for me to write something well,

Traci Thomas 9:36

um, and you're a professional writer now you're a TV writer, and film and TV, right? Yes, yes. And how does that compare? Does that feel like easy, not easy. But does that still, Does it still feel like the same kind of writing muscle, or does it feel different than the college writing muscle that you recognized in yourself?

Kara Brown 9:56

Well, all writing is a nightmare, so there's Okay. Well, I agree

Traci Thomas 10:00

with you about that, yeah, I think writing is a curse, and I can't believe people do it. I do it for money, barely, and I hate every second of it. The thought of making my whole life, right? Yeah, insane it is.

Kara Brown 10:13

I mean, I always say this. I mean, it's not just me, but the best part about writing is having written. That's because I've heard this, I

Traci Thomas 10:19

don't even agree about I having written is one of the worst parts, because then other people have to read it, and then you have to worry about other people reading, oh, I'm an idiot, and other people now have it in print. Well,

Kara Brown 10:30

that's assuming you don't think your writing is bad. I guess that's true. I would say, like my so after college, I worked in PR for a while, and then I eventually, in like, kind of a roundabout way, ended up writing for the internet. So I wrote for Jezebel for three or four years. And I would say that writing, it's not necessarily the same as Screenwriting at all. But what was very helpful was that era the internet, you had to write a lot, and you had to take a point of view very quickly, you know what I mean. So like, that was the thing. Like, we would be, quote, unquote, covering news, but it's like, you know, the New York Times broke a story, and then we would put our kind of Jezebel spin on it. So you had to very quickly decide, like, what's my angle in that's going to be? Like, we're all talking about the same thing, but I'm coming at it from a slightly different way. So I learned to do that very quickly, and then you just learned to write really fast. And so to this day, I'm a very quick writer. It's something that even like my manager or my agents will, like, you know, tell people and I and I can get scripts done really quickly when I'm when I'm focused, or, like, when I need to um, and that is because I was in this era that, for me, is because of the internet writing, interesting.

Traci Thomas 11:47

I have a question about being a very online person in that era, because that was like, like early, like 2000 10s. Like early, 2000 10s, and now you're not really an online person at all. Got sick of it. So what happened? Yeah, what happened? How did you make the shift? How were you because, like, part of being an online person in that time was, like, that's how you were making your money. You had to be online. And so what happened for you? How did it shift? How did you, how did you get free of the internet? I

Kara Brown 12:16

mean, that version of the internet was way more fun. Let's just start there, like you there were, like, not Twitter wasn't full of Nazis and like it was, it was a lot more sort of egalitarian. You could, like, tweet with, like, celebrities, and it wasn't like, you know what? I mean, you could just have it just felt like, it felt more earnest, it felt pure, it was more fun. You were sharing things that like people would see, like, I feel like sometimes now it can feel like an echo, like you're just sending things off into the abyss, right? And before, like you could, I remember like having articles at Jezebel and and, you know, I publish it, we publish it, and then someone else would read it and and tweet about it, and then someone else was retweeting that, and they're adding it, and all of a sudden, it's like, every of a sudden it's like, everywhere. So it was just more fun, and I think, but I think more than So, I think I got a little bit tired of the internet. I was, I was super online for a long time. Yeah, and, you know, because, like, when we were Jezebel, it's just like Twitter is up all day, like all day, in part because you're keeping up with the news, but it's just like you were seeing everything. You're reading, like all of the big sites at the time, you're just reading like every article, like, it's just there was, you were, we were super online. And I think now, one I do not find internet usage to be productive for my writing in this in the same way, like I don't, it's not. I actually now have it blocked during the day. That's probably also why everyone sees me online less. Like I yeah, I have Twitter and Instagram and Tiktok blocked from like, nine to five got it. So how do you block it? I have an app on my phone called freedom, and then I have, like, another app on my my laptop that's like a, you know, for the browser. And honestly, once I started working in Hollywood, you know, like, I talk a lot like, that's what keep it was about pop culture. Yeah, I was finding that maybe I didn't need to be running my mouth about pop culture every day, because, oh, maybe I'm like, I've seen a movie and I hated it, and I'm like, That way stopped, and then I have a meeting with that producer, yeah, or, you know, like this actor that, like, I didn't like in that thing, but I want them in something else. And so that is, that's a big part of it, where I was like, I don't really need to be speaking in public that often, and maybe shooting myself in the foot, because I just, you know, because you're just kind of like saying shit, because it's like, it's on the internet,

Traci Thomas 14:44

right, right? Okay, that makes sense, okay. I want to talk about screenwriting a little bit, because you worked on the other black girl, which for people who don't know, but I think most people here do know. It was a book. It was a really popular book, and I adapted it into a show. Oh, and so I want to just, I want to ask you about that process of like, when you're reading a book for adaptation, and like, you know you're going to be working on the script. What are you looking for? What are you trying to keep like, pure from the book? And what are you like this has to go or, like, this isn't useful, or this won't work on the screen. How are you thinking about those sorts of things? So for

Kara Brown 15:24

some for TV, right? So it's not just me, so it's our it's like Rashida Jones produced it, and then Jordan right out, and Gus Hickey were the show runners. And we have a room of writers, so it's all of us. And so some of that is the showrunners vision. Some of it is also the network. Like, do they want you to lean more into the book, or do they really just like the concept of the book and they want you to take it off and they say

Traci Thomas 15:52

that they'll be like, we we just really like the concept, like, do your thing. They'll tell

Kara Brown 15:57

you in like, unclear, roundabout ways, like, you. I mean, I think sometimes they'll be very clear, but like with that show, we sort of learned later in the process that, like, oh, they actually were interested in, very much interested in, like, the actions of the book, and not necessarily, like, there had been sort of an earlier leadership and we were going in a different direction, like absolutely, was still the other black girl, was still the grease, it was still all of that stuff, but it was just going a little different. And then we heard that they they would have, they wanted us to sort of get more into what was in the book, so that sometimes would look a little dictated. The interesting thing is, in terms of, like, my own work, I've been having this love hate thing with Okay, books and adaptations. Talk about it, because I I very much resent right now, what's happening is like, I'm very resentful of this idea that like, only i pe does well or is worth, you know, doing anything with like. I still love original ideas, I think also the medium in which someone chooses to create something is important. And sometimes a play is not a good movie. Sometimes it is, but sometimes a book is not a good TV show or whatever. You know, to me, the example I always think of is The Great Gatsby, which on the page, stunning, like, like the pros is is amazing. That story is not a good story. Like the plot of that book is kind of like, it's kind of boring. It's boring. It's like, you forget, like that car crash at the it's just like it's not that good of a story. The book is good because the writing is unbelievable, and so every time they try to adapt that it's not that good. It's not that good because I think they keep trying, they keep trying, and it's like, oh, it's because the story is not that good. That's why, that's why it's not very good when you adapt it. So I've been very, I've been like, I go at all these meetings, and they're always like, we're gonna send you because, you know, people know producers and everyone, they know that I read. So they'll do a lot of like, oh, like, we got books. And so I'm very particular. And I actually think not always, but oftentimes I think for me, I think kind of the quote, unquote, worse the book is, the more interested I am in adapting it. Kara,

Traci Thomas 18:16

this is what I have been saying for years. Oh, oh, thank fucking Thank you. Okay, I talk about this all the time, and people are always like kind of glaze over a bad book makes for a better adaptation, because a you have room to move around with it. If you adapt a book that everybody loves, you can only fail you. The best you can do is meet the book. You could never make a better thing from a great thing. And that was my feeling about and I have a lot of thoughts, did you see nickel boys? It did okay. So I had complicated feelings about that, because I thought the movie was like, fine and good, and I thought the cinematography was great. But I feel like that book is written for the written word, because one of the big tricks of the book, and this is sort of a spoiler, but we did this on book club last year. This on book club last year. This is the book we did with Franklin. Okay, yeah, but one of the big tricks of the book is what Colson Whitehead wants you to know and see, and when he wants you to see it. And if you literally see Davi Diggs hand in, you know, Act One, you kind of know, yeah, like you kind of gave away the whole thing. And so I but also that that book is just so good, and it's so intimate, and, like, it's such a personal read that being in a room with other people, or, like, seeing it outside of your brain, it just doesn't serve the actual thing. I think that movie was still really good, but I don't think they needed to adapt it. I don't think that it added value, like, to the story, and I'm such a firm believer the worst. The thing is, the like, Did you see the black Klansmen?

Kara Brown 19:45

I didn't even spicy movie. I didn't even, oh, it was his memoir, right? It

Traci Thomas 19:49

is so bad. The book is so bad. And I think the movie's fine, yeah, but the movie is 1000 times better than the book. And that's always the example I give, where I'm like, I. Because people always like, Oh, the book's always better. I'm like, No, it's not. You just don't know the book when the movie is better. Well, that's the

Kara Brown 20:05

other thing. There are a lot of books. There are a lot of movies that people don't realize were books. Like, actually, you know, a movie I loved when I was younger was, Catch Me If You Can. Like, Tom Hey, DiCaprio and Frank, Frank, something is right? Yeah, Frank land No. Frank Landau is that is a character, and someone's gonna hear this and know that that's from like, a TV show, and it's all getting um, but I remember then I went back and read, I'm like, 16 or something, right? And I went back and, like, read his memoir, and I was like, Oh, that the I liked the movie better.

Traci Thomas 20:38

Frank, Abigail Junior, Agnew, Abby, big nail, Abigail and the memoir was just like what it was,

Kara Brown 20:47

but, yeah, but I, but yes, so I think Jen, so I'm very, kind of persnickety about when I get and something that is maybe now it's sort of based off of a couple experiences. I'm not speaking about the other black girl, but for me, with other projects, I prefer when the author is not super involved, yeah, because what needs to happen to a book to turn it into a movie, maybe the author doesn't like and also, if they've never adapted something, if they've never written a movie, if they've never written a TV show, they don't understand what needs to happen for something to be a TV show, especially with TV what you have to set up when you're developing a show to, in theory, continue this for season after season is like, it's not like an unknowable skill, but you have to have done it before, Like, I've been in many TV rooms, so I understand what needs to happen in a pilot, in a TV show for this to continue. If you've never done that, you don't necessarily know. And so then maybe you're getting pushback. There was a project I was developing, I'm getting pushback from the author. And I'm like, okay, but you don't, but

Traci Thomas 21:58

you don't understand, you don't understand how to support your medium. Yes, so

Kara Brown 22:01

I am. So I'm definitely like, like, there's a projector I'm working on right now that is a someone's memoir, and the subject is not super, super involved, like, day to day, and also her story, like, I just really run with it. Like, it's like, right? I The conceit is so cool and really fun, and then I'm like, Okay, I have to change a lot of stuff to make this the type of show that people are going to want to watch. And luckily, like the producers, everyone, we're all on board with that. So those are for me, with adaptation, that's generally, those are the parameters I need, and right. Also super uninterested in adapting books that I loved, yeah, because I'm like

Traci Thomas 22:47

seeing, yeah, I don't want to see it like, I get annoyed. The to me, the sort of like perfect, the perfect balance for book to screen adaptation is something that I've heard is good, that I would never read. But also the thing that's coming out I've heard is good, so like, I'm thinking in my mind, conclave. I read it and then I saw it. Yeah, I never would have read conclave. I don't fucking care about Conclave, obviously. Now I am locked Yes, rip Pope Francis, but I am like, Let's fucking go, but I liked the movie and I liked the book, and I had a great time with both. But neither of those things were like, I'm dying to see this, or I'm dying to read this, and I feel like, as a viewer reader, it has to be that, because once I have strong feelings about one of them, the other one's a failure. It's

Kara Brown 23:38

kind of why, like a John Grisham book is great because you're like, I've never, I've read John Grisham. You're not like, oh my god, the literature. You're like, yeah, that was, like, that was like, a thrilling legal like, the firm. You're like, Yeah, okay. And so then by the I don't, I don't care that. I don't care that much. So then by the time I get to the movie, you're like, Oh yeah, I'm watching the thing that I read. Like, it's just the right amount of like, how much I liked something, right going into the movie. But I think, you know, that's me. I don't know. I mean, I'm there a lot of other writers. I feel like I hear this when, when it's someone who's adopted some of the book, and they're just like, well, I fell in love with the book, and I wanted to, you know, whatever. And know, whatever. And I'm like, I do not share that sentiment. I don't

Traci Thomas 24:26

agree with that. And I usually feel like when someone falls in love with the book, they don't do as good of a job adapting. Like, when they like, are gushing about how much they love the thing. I'm like, Well, yeah, yeah, it's not for me. Okay. I know that you mentioned this to me. I hope we can talk about all the because this is how we came to our book club pick, is that you have been working in the world of mysteries for writing. So you've been reading a lot of mysteries, which is not a thing that you had been reading before. So what has been exciting, too about them? Talk to me a little bit about mysteries, because we're going to read devil in a blue dress. Four book club at the end of the month, which neither of us have read before. I've never read any Walter Mosley, but I'm really excited, because this is, like, you know, considered the book that made black detectives a thing. Yeah, I guess. So talk to me a little bit about mysteries and your relationship to them and what's going on. So

Kara Brown 25:17

I was never, I can't really, I think the closest I ever got was something like a John Grisham book, which is not a was not a mystery, but just sort of, like, those are, like, procedural thriller, yeah, and I had, I think it was cheap old. So my dream is one day to leave this all behind, and I just want to, like, live in the Cotswolds and, like, live in a beautiful cottage and, like, garden and and read all day. And so there are these, like, they call them like, you know, like cozy mystery novels, yes. So there's this, like, whole genre, like, specifically, like in the COTS walls, like in the English countryside. And it's like, you know, a lady has just moved she's just bought her cottage, and she, you know, she's gotten divorced, and she's starting a new life, and then she moves into this town, and she's going on walks and getting to know that the townspeople going into the village, and then a body shows up, and she gets wrapped up in a murder. And so it's just like a really easy to digest book. And so I do like to go, like, for the past couple years, I've actually gone out to, like, the English countryside, like different areas, for like a week to work, to, like, do so, right?

Traci Thomas 26:25

So I have you stumbled on any bodies, not yet, but, my

Kara Brown 26:29

gosh, it's got to happen as often as it's got to happen soon. So I was sort of reading the books because I was, like, in the location, and then I was approached to start to it's, it's a this story is based off of a true story, like a crime that actually happened, but there's like this strong mystery element. It's like the movie is kind of like a knives out vibe. Okay, so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna pitch on this idea. But I do not know how to write a mystery. I so I started reading a bunch of I watched movies, but I just feel like, for me to understand the story structure, I needed to like read these books. And so I just started reading like. I read an Agatha Christie novel for the first time. I was just, did you like it? I did. I did like I wrote her first one. Yeah, I liked it for what I was doing. I wasn't like, get me another one. I read. I read a few more, like, more modern kind of, like mystery, like, in the same vein, like mysteries. So I thought it was interesting. You're like, Okay, this detective character is super important. Like, what's there? They're such a character, like, capital C character. And then I started, like, watching all these YouTube videos about how to write mystery novel, mystery novels. And it was very helpful. So, yeah, so I was on this like, tear of just reading all these mysteries to try to get into the right mindset to break this movie. And I, you know, like, I've done it for now. You know, obviously, like, if it moves forward and I'm it'll, I'll have rewritten it 95 times. Um, but, yeah, I just thought I, what I learned about reading the mysteries was how satisfying they are, which I think with sort of, just sort of other novels, the ending is not always super satisfying, right? And kind of, by design, a mystery, yes, kind of has to have a satisfying and even if, like, you know, the the killer and all of that isn't, you're like, Oh, that. Or I figured it out, or that wasn't exactly that, that wasn't like, the most clever thing, or whatever, it still comes together in a way where you're like, it's very satisfying. So it's like, yeah, it does feel like you just like, you just like, had a great snack by the time you finished one of these mystery novels, when you

Traci Thomas 28:51

are reading a mystery, or, I guess, any book, Are you the kind of person who is trying to figure out what's going to happen and what's going on? Are you the kind of person who just lets it wash over

Kara Brown 29:02

you. I do not want to figure it out. I don't care. I'm like, I don't care. No, I'm like, I'm gonna find out eventually. So I don't I think just naturally, you're assuming, you're like, oh, this person seems suspicious, you know, whatever. And you're kind of like, yeah, it's that thing of like, is it the third most suspicious person? It's not the most you know? Like, it's not gonna be the most obvious person. But I definitely am not, like, trying to solve it, which I do know is something from all of the YouTube videos I watched in the I may try to solve, yeah,

Traci Thomas 29:38

person I can't I try to solve just like literary fiction, I'm like, oh, oh, what's up that that person's off like, I'm all, I cannot let I didn't know other people weren't always trying to figure things out.

Kara Brown 29:51

I knew that more with like TV and movies like I've seen, I've been I've been watching the studio and on Apple. And like, the last episode, I was like, I know it's good. I could tell. I was, like, calling it in my head about what was gonna happen. But I kind of just, like letting the mysteries, kind of like, just I literally along the ride with our protagonist.

Traci Thomas 30:16

Okay, I see, okay, yeah, I'm really bad at that. I can't help myself. I'm like, Oh, I saw the twist coming, and people were like, it's not even a twist, it's just the plot. I'm like, Well, I saw what was

Kara Brown 30:24

gonna happen. I learned this from watching all the media, videos that like the community, that like, you know, books that are easily solvable. They like, don't like that, you know, like that. There is people, yeah, care a lot about whether or not like, it was too easy to figure out or it was too left field. And I'm like, yeah, that that's fair. That's fair. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 30:44

I mean, I don't mind if I figure it out. I don't like when it's really left field where I'm like, Okay, well, like, you just introduced this whole new thing that is from outer space. Like, I like, I don't, I always hate that because, because you're telling me, I gotta, it's a mystery. I gotta figure it out. And then you're like, oh, but you didn't know that actually, everyone's dead. I'm like, oh, okay, well, thank you.

Kara Brown 31:08

Well, one of the rules that I learned from writing mysteries is that you should give your audience enough clues to be able to figure it out. Yeah, that was a big Did you watch paradise? I did. I did. I felt like they did a good job of leaving enough clues. I won't say more, but I felt like, if you were paying attention, yes, there was a world in which that could like that in the pilot, yes, of 100% because I watched, I did not know what the show was about. When I had no idea. We

Traci Thomas 31:40

had no clue. People were like, Sterling K Brown is hot. And I was like, great. This is us.

Kara Brown 31:46

I had seen it like, I'm Hulu. And it's kind of rare for me to have no concept aboard a show is about going into it, yeah? And so I watch and so, because when I was watching it, I was not, yeah, I I'm like, oh, I should have picked up on this. Like, by the end, I was like, oh, I should have figured out. And to your point, as soon as I thought about it for a minute, you're like, Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, you did. You did signal enough.

Traci Thomas 32:09

You did give us enough, whereas, like, presumed innocence. I don't know if you watched that. That was Jake Gyllenhaal and Ruth nega. I did not watch that, yeah. So I watched that it was and they changed, like, there's been multiple movies. And so the big question was, like, will they keep it faithful to the book and the other movie or not? And I won't say what they did, and I jokingly guessed the person, but in such a way that when it was the person, I was mad, because I was like, I was being funny. You guys jumped the shark too far that my like, far afield joke answer was your actual answer? Like, I hate it here.

Kara Brown 32:48

Yeah, I I'm also not a big like, my enjoyment of something does not hinge on being shocked, like I like for just with anything. So I like a twist, but I, I'm not like, oh my god, you, you blew my mind. Like, I don't really need

Traci Thomas 33:09

that. Okay, I see that. I like a twist, yeah, I like a twist, but I don't need it. And especially if it's like something acted, if the acting is good, like, with presumed innocence, I was like, the acting is so good in this, like, like, I could have done it and I wouldn't care, but I was a little bit annoyed, because I felt like they didn't need to do what they did. They had better options. Yeah, kind of thing. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, we are back. I did not prep you for this. This is the one thing I don't prep people for it's called Ask the stacks. Someone has written an email asking for a book recommendation. So I'm gonna read to you what they said. I think this one's pretty broad, so I think you're gonna do great if you at home, want to have a recommendation read on air, email, ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com, this one says it's from Tess, and they say, Hello, I am looking for recommendations for my book club. I personally don't read a lot of fiction outside of book club, I gravitate towards non fiction around social justice, history, sexuality and or true crime. If I do pick up fiction, it's either a classic by a female author, Pride and Prejudice is one of my all time favorite books, or fantasy that is nostalgic for me. I was a big Tamara Pierce reader as a child. The rest of my book club are much more fiction readers, mostly historical fiction. I found that most of the historical fiction suggested is mainstream and therefore very Eurocentric. I'd love some recommendations for fiction books with more diverse perspectives, or non fiction with compelling narratives. I've listed our recent reads below for reference on the vibes and the group, and I'll just give you a few of those, the vanishing half the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo, the midnight library becoming the stationery shop project Hail Mary, the Paris architect. So. So those are some of the books they've done. So they have done again, yeah, so we're gonna get them some book club picks. I will do three. You can do one or two or three up to you. Okay. Do you have an idea? Do you want to go first? Or would you like me to go? You go, you go. Okay, so my first pick is technically not historical fiction, but it's an old book, so it will feel like historical fiction, because it was written in the 1920s it is passing by nella Larson, this book is a blast to discuss. We did it here on this podcast with Cree miles. We had such a good time. It's super short, so everybody can finish it. Not a lot of pressure. It's about two women, one, two very fair skinned women. One is passing for white, one is living as a black woman. That's all you need to know. Juicy stuff. My second pick is my current literary obsession. It's a throwback. It taps into your sort of fantasy world, which is the Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. I just reread the first three books because there's the new book, and they're so good. But the first book has anything you want to discuss about what's going on in the world right now, baby. It is in Katniss is dealing with it. It's so much fun. There's so much to talk about. And it's, again, like an it's not short, but it's just, like, such an easy, fast read, and there's just, like, you could just really get juicy. I want to do it with a book club. I think it would be so fun. And then my last one is my non fiction pick for you, that kind of taps into social justice history and a little true crime, which is Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson. It's about his time, as in the beginning of his career, when he was working to exonerate people on death row, but it gets into the history of death row and the work he did to make it so that minors could not be put to death or into prison for life without the possibility of parole. There's like one central story in the book, but also a lot of history and reporting and etc, and it's a fantastic book. So yeah, all three of my Pixar books that I desperately love, and so I think your book club will like them even if they have slightly basic reading tastes

Kara Brown 37:13

just mercy. Can I tell you, I remember reading that book, and it was like, one of those books I would have to, I would like, read it, and then I have to put it down, because I'd have to be like, we're sending their sentencing 15 year olds to life. And just like, it was so crazy,

Traci Thomas 37:30

yeah, that book made me consider going to law school. Like, I literally was like, How will I? How should I?

Kara Brown 37:36

No, I think I and it hadn't occurred to me. I was like, Wait, we're sending 16 year olds. We're putting 16 year olds on death row, or, like, for prison for life, like, what? And

Traci Thomas 37:50

like, so many people in the book are like, special needs people as well. Like, it's just, like, it's depravity, yeah,

Kara Brown 37:55

well, it wasn't that literally, like, his whole argument to the Supreme Court was, like, their brains are literally not set like cannot, cannot understand the consequence of their actions, which is why we shouldn't condemn teenagers, right

Traci Thomas 38:10

for the rest of their life? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I

Kara Brown 38:13

have a, I don't know that it's gonna hit any of their boxes, but a book that came to mind that I would have wanted to read with people on the death of a vet. Og, oh,

Traci Thomas 38:23

yeah, a quick image, yeah. I feel

Kara Brown 38:25

like it's, it's not fantasy, but it's like dreamy. I feel like their writing is kind of like dreamy ish, yeah. And I feel like it's in, I think of their books and Brits books like, as on the same shelf,

Traci Thomas 38:40

sure, same publisher, yeah. And

Kara Brown 38:44

their cover is always the book covers are similar, but I, but I just think, like, the readability of both of those of their novels. But I feel like it feels like a good book, hub book, it feels like you can get through, like, it just reads really easy, yeah, and there's like, a lot of like, you know, points of views, in a way, where I'm like, Oh, I feel like, for a group, that will maybe be like an interesting or like a fun thing to talk about, that's

Traci Thomas 39:12

a good pick. Okay. Tess, if you read any of our books with your book club, you have to let us know everyone else, if you want a recommendation on air, email, ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com, okay, Cara, two books you love, one book you hate.

Kara Brown 39:28

I will go with my favorite book, which is 100 Years of Solitude we talked about. And then I a book I read recently. It's called some 40 Tales from the afterlives that was like, S O M, E, S u m, s u m. And it's, I was, I was in, was I in Bruton in England, since, like, tiny town, and I walked into the book shop, and I just, like, saw the book sitting there. And, you know. Curated bookshops. And I, when I bought it, the like, old lady worked there, was like, it's, that's amazing, and it's really, it's, it's short, and I read it all in like, a day, but it's like, this guy, it's all of these different versions of the afterlife. Wow. So it's like 40 different versions of, like, what happens afterwards. And it was just like, unbelievable. Like, it was so good, it's not super new, but I read it recently. That's been probably my favorite book so far this year, a book I hate God, I have two, but no, I'll do you can do both. That's fine. Well, part of darkness, okay, which I was assigned? I think I've been assigned that book three between college and high school about three times. I think I read it for the first time in high school, and I was like, hate this. And then I was assigned it two more times in college, and just like, skimmed it to whatever extent I needed to, to, like, pass the class. I don't like that movie. I don't like the movie. I don't like what's the is it Apocalypse Now? Oh yeah, is that related to it? It's kind of like, technically, I think harder. I just thought it was so boring and hard to read. And I feel I am not the arbiter of clear writing, but I would say, like I read at a high level. Okay, and so

Traci Thomas 41:20

if I'm reading, mean, you got from flimsy to hardcover. I

Kara Brown 41:23

mean that jump. I mean that jump. And, you know, I have a degree in English, technically, like, I professional writer. And so when I'm reading something, and it's hard to follow, to me that is, like, that's the book. But I just hated that book, and was assigned it so many times, and hate, hate it.

Traci Thomas 41:42

Okay, what's the other one? Do you want to say? Queenie,

Kara Brown 41:46

yeah, didn't, didn't love it. I, you know what? I think with that book, I've hated the protagonist, okay, like, I just thought she was such a dumb bitch, and not, like, a funny way, just like a dumb bitch. And I was like, You're such a dumb bitch, I'm not even rooting for you. Like, that's like, when your friend is like, Oh, my God, my friend's being stupid, and you're like, Oh, but I love her, whatever. I was like, Oh, I don't want like you. You deserve everything happening to you because you're so dumb. Are

Traci Thomas 42:16

you a Are you a person who needs a likable protagonist? You just or just not,

Kara Brown 42:22

wasn't it? I just, like, needed it to make any like, I just felt like she doesn't need to be likable. But she was like, it wasn't even like she was unlikable. She was just, she was like, embarrassing and like, not a funny like, I was like, Oh my God. Like, and I think the book wanted you to be in it with her, like, Oh, she's messy and she's figuring out. And I was like, like, there's a scene, like the scene that killed me. There's like, a scene where she's black and she goes home with her white boyfriend's family, and his family is super racist, and she, like, leaves, and she's like, waiting at a train station, and he comes the boyfriend, and he's kind of like, you shouldn't have, like, talked to them like that. Like, he's kind of like, he's kind of like, I know it was bad, but like, and she just, like, eats it, you know what? I mean? I was like, okay, she sucks. Yeah. I was like, Oh, you, yeah, you suck. Okay,

Traci Thomas 43:15

okay, I get it. What are you reading right now?

Kara Brown 43:20

Right now I'm re so I generally do. I read a couple books at a time, okay? So I'm reading this book right now called wake up and open your eyes. That's like this kind of horror. It's kind of like a satire of Fox News, okay? And it's like horror e that's been like, that's been pretty good. I've been moving through it pretty quickly. I thought it

Traci Thomas 43:45

was self help. I thought it was like, how to get your day started. I was like, I'm so surprised by this pic. Well,

Kara Brown 43:50

that's, that's like, that's not unrelated to, like, how they're kind of like, Yeah, got it, got it, got it. And then I'm listening to this book, I think it's called No More Tears, about, like, I guess how Johnson and Johnson is like, Oh,

Traci Thomas 44:03

yes, the new Johnson and Johnson book just came out. Yeah. So

Kara Brown 44:07

I've been listening to that. Is it good? Yeah. So it, it's been, it's good in that you're like, damn. You're like, right, okay, wow. Companies, not, yeah, not. But I am. It's hard for me to listen to books because I have to really focus, yeah? And because this book is like information, you know, it's like nonfiction, I'm having to, like, I'm having to really focus. And then I, then I started reading devil in the blue dress. Oh, you started? Yeah, I haven't started yet. Yeah, are you liking it so far? I mean, I've read two chapters, so it's super short, right? Yeah. So I'm, I'm not very foreign. I mean, I'm, yeah, got it. I got

Traci Thomas 44:51

it. Um, how do you pick what to read next? Who are your trusted sources? What are your trusted sources? I

Kara Brown 44:58

would say I. I mean, it's all over the place. Like, if aminachi So is a very good friend, so we give each other recommendations all the time. Like we're frequently reading books at the other so, like, I had just read Curtis Curtis sinfeld last collection, short story collection, which Amina had suggested to me anytime. Like, Sam Irby posts about a book, I'll read any of Sam's recommendations, because I love her and I love her mind her like, yes, insane. Mind insane. And she's such a reader, yeah. And then I will, like, you know when like, The New York Times does like, like, I'll when they do their sort of recommendations, like, I'll sometimes, like, pull from that, like, I just read the death of the author, because I was just called the death of death of the author, death of the author. Yeah, that I had, I think, actually is the key. Who wrote the other black girl had written about it for the times. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 45:56

it's the Nettie Okafor book,

Kara Brown 45:59

yeah. So, like, I read that one, like, when I was on vacation, and then, I mean anything, I would say, yeah, like, and then I have just, like, books that I have not read, that I want to read that's just always like, okay, when am I going to pull from that? Because sometimes, you know, when there's, like, a new book I want to get to that quickly, and then sort of pulling from just like a

Traci Thomas 46:23

general like, back list, yeah, action, yeah. One of the books on my list of like, books I just absolutely have to read eventually, one day, is Heart of Darkness. I've never read it. I just feel like, I feel like I have to, like, I just, I feel like it's too culturally, like, called upon to not read it. I don't think I'm gonna like it. I'm not reading it like, oh, I can't read to read my next favorite book. I just sort of want to know what people are talking about when they reference it. You know, the

Kara Brown 46:50

incredible thing about that book for me too, is how little of it I retained. Like, read, to read like I like, I would read a page and then it was disappeared. It was out of my mind, like I could not retain any of the story. So good luck. Yeah,

Traci Thomas 47:06

we'll see. I mean, it's been on my list for at least 10 years, and I haven't gotten to it yet, so who knows, but it was mentioned in Imani Perry's new book. She mentioned it, and I was like, you know, I gotta just fucking read this so I know what people are talking about, like, my hair is too important to me, yeah, for me not to just know every reference she ever makes.

Kara Brown 47:26

I guess ironically, I'm glad that I was assigned it so many times because I got it out of the way, because I would not have picked up that book, No, in my real life. And so I guess that is what a school is for. Okay, if you were gonna say,

Traci Thomas 47:40

like, this is a quintessential kind of Kara book, because I'm gathering that you read across a lot of genres, a lot of fiction, non fiction, what's like, I go into a bookstore, I just want a book that I know I'm gonna fucking love. Where are you going? What are you looking for? Like, what are the what are the kinds of books that are just like Kara books. I

Kara Brown 48:01

mean it's so, I mean it, yeah, it's a lot of it's mood dependent, I would say also, like, I'm often in the mood for very different things. I love poetry, okay? Um, so that's kind of a random one that sometimes I'll just like Nikki Giovanni. Is the reason i is one of three reasons I'm a writer. I do love a magical realism, like any like, obviously, 100 Years of Solitude, but another really important author for me, which, like, I'm just gonna say it, and I don't want to hear anything from anybody, but it's German Alexei, who is like, again, the second reason I'm a writer, and so his, all of his earlier works, like, it's that kind of native magical realism, kind of vibe that I just fucking love.

Traci Thomas 48:50

So that's the third reason you're a writer. 100 Years

Kara Brown 48:55

of Solitude, oh, like to me, like, those were the three. Those are the three. Like I my dad had gotten me, I had read, I'd heard the sneaky Giovanni poem. He went to Half Price Books and got me her Collected Works changed my life. 100 degrees of solids would change my life. And then Sherman, Alexie, I grew up in Seattle, so he actually spoke at my school when I was in like six or seventh grade, wow. And I came home and I was just like, blowing, yeah. This is it, this is it, um, but, and I will, and then I will say, every once in a while, I want, like, a thick ass, like a, like a tome, like, I want something that's just fiction or non fiction, fiction, fiction, for sure, like a little life, um, or, like, Lonesome Dove, okay? Like, I just want a heavy book. Got it that is gonna take me a long time, and is gonna, do, you know, I want, like, it's been 60 years, or like, yeah, you know, there's like, 18 different like characters I

Traci Thomas 49:56

can with, something like that. Will you sit down and read it? Or. Will you read it over, like, months, I think

Kara Brown 50:03

usually. So I just read this very long book called The deluge, deluge by Stephen Markley that that books like 900 pages. I had to kind of only read that book, like when a book is like, when books are that lock, that big and that kind of like, there's that much story, I kind of have to just commit to just reading that. And that took me about a month. Okay, so you but so, because some people will, like, break up no time. Like, yeah, something like, learn some dove. I gotta say it in with, with these cowboys, because I'm gonna, I'm gonna open this book up again and be like, where am I? What's happened? Um, so I like to just, I like to just decide, probably, like, two or three times a year, because it does take like, a month of my reading, yeah, and I'll be like, Okay, we're doing, we're doing the big me and the dove me in this big book, and we're gonna get it okay? I

Traci Thomas 51:03

love that. I love when I can make time to do something big. My goal this year is to try to do Count of Monte Cristo, because I've heard it's amazing, yeah, because my thing about I love plot. And so one of my big problems with, like, those big, juicy, like big, long books is it's like so much vibe, and I'm like, No, I need action, because I like non fiction personally. So if it's fiction, I need, like, I need shit to be happening. And so I'm told Count of Monte Cristo has action. Yeah,

Kara Brown 51:34

there's, I'm trying to think in terms of non fiction. Like, I definitely like read Hamilton, like, Alexander, like, I remember being like, I remember, I don't know that I was flying through it, but I don't I remember, like, yeah, a lot of shit happened to this guy. Like, there's all going on here. Um, I had wanted to read Oppenheimer after I saw because I loved the movie I did, too. And then I was like, Have you actually opened the book. I think I did. I probably read like, 50 pages

Traci Thomas 52:06

that font, the font is minuscule, tiny,

Unknown Speaker 52:09

and your pages

Traci Thomas 52:10

are thin as hell. It's like, they really packed it in there.

Kara Brown 52:14

And I will say to you with with Alexander Hamilton, there's just like stuff, you know, you're like, wow, America is just starting, like, there's a lot of shit going on, yeah? Oppenheimer, you're like, I know that he personally, in his mind, there was a lot happening, right? But like, in the beginning, you're just kind of like anyone to school, and he's thinking of the things, it's like, yeah,

Traci Thomas 52:36

yeah. And I also, for that one, I'm just like, I don't understand the science, and so it's too hard. Like, it's too hard I barely understand the math of Alexander Hamilton. Like, I was like, okay, so banks got it, got it right. Like, but with it's like, you're splitting an atom. I don't know. I don't care. I don't know what Pythagorean theorem is, let alone whatever the fuck you guys are doing. I'm gonna be

Kara Brown 52:57

honest with myself, it is unlikely I'll ever get back to that. But, like, I, and I think the window was when I was writing the high of the movie. Yes, that's certainly when I bought it. I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read this book, you know, like, and once that passed, I am probably not revisiting that, but we'll see that's fair.

Traci Thomas 53:15

What's the well, do you have a favorite bookstore?

Kara Brown 53:21

I mean, not here necessarily. I think of like the Barnes and Noble where I grew up, because that was so my parents also, when I was in middle school, I was obsessed with the Babysitters Club books, okay, same. And it got to the point where I remember, I don't know if it was my mom or my dad, or they together, came to me and were like, Look, we're not they. I think they said for every Babysitter's Club book, I had to get a different book. Okay? So they were like, We'll buy you Babysitters Club books, but what we have to buy you another book simultaneously. Because they were kind of trying to wean me off of those. Okay. Um, so I think so I do remember like, getting to go to the Barnes and Noble and pick out a book, as long as it was a Babysitter's Club book. So that feels like really nice. But, um, recently I was, like, at the end of last year, I was in Ireland, I was in Dublin. I was in other places, but in Dublin, um, I think it's called, like, Hodges biggest um, this bookstore there that was just like, beautiful and cozy, and like all these, like wood floors and the bookshelves and, and you can just tell to when a shop has been really curated, and like, yeah, you know. And like, the people that work there read and really love the books. Love books, yeah. And I really felt that there, um, yeah, very expensive, but it was the next,

Traci Thomas 54:48

okay, this is our sort of speed round. What's the last book that made you laugh?

Kara Brown 54:51

Probably Show, don't tell. Curse Curtis Sittenfeld, when I read her short stories those, those were, there's some funny ones.

Traci Thomas 54:58

Love. Last book that made you cry.

Unknown Speaker 55:02

I don't really cry when I read me

Traci Thomas 55:04

neither. Last book that made you angry. That

Kara Brown 55:08

book The deluge. It's like, about climate it's like, kind of like, if we did nothing about climate change, and I was like, oh my god, we're all gonna die. Okay, yeah,

Traci Thomas 55:17

last book where you felt like you learned a lot.

Kara Brown 55:20

Okay, there's this guy named Oliver Berkman who writes these books that are kind of sell healthy books, but he wrote one called 4000 weeks that I'm I love his writing, and I love his general life philosophy. It's just like, calm me down a little bit, and I just like the way he approaches like time and work. And I also read this book called Slow productivity that's in sort of a similar vein of just like how to just how to approach work differently. So those were helpful, right? Yeah, okay.

Traci Thomas 55:52

Is there any books that you're embarrassed to have read? To have read, I

Kara Brown 55:57

mean, embarrassed, you know what? I don't think it's embarrassing, but I'm a real sucker for those, like, like, all of the books that, after Anthony Bourdain wrote his books that were, like, I was a waiter at this thing and, like, like, I, yeah, you know, like, I, you could read that straight on one plane, right? You know? I mean, like, that's what, from like, la LAX to JFK, you can get through the whole book, and it's not really, they're just like, let me tell you about, like, when I worked with a hotel and all the things the guests did that were kind of crazy. Like, yeah, I will, I will read one of those. And it's not, it's not high literature. What

Traci Thomas 56:37

about a book you're embarrassed that you still have not read.

Kara Brown 56:40

I feel like it's all those, like, Russia, like, boring piece, yeah,

Traci Thomas 56:45

yeah. People say that all the time. I we read Anna, Karenina on this podcast, and you know what I said, done, I did it. Oh, really, red Russian. I did it. I think I'm gonna do it, but I'm done. I think I'm gonna

Kara Brown 56:56

G warn like I will do it eventually. But I to your point, you kind of gotta pick one. Like, maybe I fall in love with Russian literature. That is possible. Um, probably not. So whatever one I picked that's gonna be, to me, it needs to be the most indicative of, kind of, like, the the lore and like, they're, you know, historically, I liked Anna,

Traci Thomas 57:17

Karenina, I will say I thought it was really good. It's juicy. Stuff happens. There's some sections where nothing happens because it's about, like agriculture, and those parts are, like, sort of important to the book in, like, setting the scene kind of stuff. But the stuff with Anna, is she okay? She's out here. She's bopping like I went to it. Do you have a problematic favorite? I mean, I guess you said Sherman, Alexie. I would

Kara Brown 57:40

say he's my, he's my, I mean, I listen his last book that that sort of memoir about his mother. Okay, it's, you don't have to say you love me. I'm sorry. It's fucking incredible. It's incredible. It's one of the best books I've ever read. He's an excellent poet, like, you know, like I know, but like his, he's such a good writer. It's like, it's tough. I

Traci Thomas 58:08

never read him. Do you have any favorite books about where you're from? So I guess Seattle or Dallas? I'm

Kara Brown 58:16

not gonna clean Dallas. I'm trying to think twice. I mean, I would not say Twilight,

Traci Thomas 58:25

are those set in Seattle, aren't they? Or she's just from there. I don't know. I've never read them. I am

Kara Brown 58:29

aware that. I guess I can't say that's my favorite books if I haven't read them. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the movies are in Seattle or, like, in a specific Northwest I don't know who else do people sell a lot of books in Seattle? I can't think of any. I can't think of any. Well, actually, you know what? Sorry again, Sherman Lexi because he's from, he's not from Seattle, but, like from Washington State. And so a lot of his books are set in Washington State. So it would probably be one of those.

Traci Thomas 58:56

I'm sure there must be. I'm just I can't think of any. Okay, I only have two more for you. One is, if you were a high school teacher, what would you teach your students? What book would you teach your students?

Kara Brown 59:11

Uh, I would probably do 100 Years of Solitude. That's like when I, I read that in AP, English, and I, I think I remember the day, you know, because I'm with 17 when I, when I was like, Oh, wait, this was written in Spanish, like, you know, like, it hadn't really clicked for me. And then I was like, the translation of this book is this incredible. Like, I could, like, I just was like, I cannot even believe that, that I'm reading a translation and it's this good. But, yeah, I just there's like, so much, there's just, like, so much fun stuff in that book that I would want to chat about or educate I guess

Traci Thomas 59:50

I love those. I'm just here to chit chat you guys like, you'll learn about alliteration later. But I just want to talk like, let's just talk nuts and bolts. Yeah, it's

Kara Brown 59:58

the book that also like, it's. I really understood magical realism, right? It's like the example. So I think, like the one, understanding that genre through that book would be, would be really fun. I

Traci Thomas 1:00:11

love that. Okay, last one I saw it from the New York Times. If you could require the current president of the United States to read one book, what would you pick?

Kara Brown 1:00:19

All book, any book, Cat in the Hat. Um, I mean, I'm going to assume he's less of a utter imbecile. The book, I would always say, is The Warmth of Other Suns. Oh yes, like for for every president but Barack Obama, it's yes.

Traci Thomas 1:00:39

Well, no, he probably needs it too. He's not, he's probably black, yeah,

Kara Brown 1:00:43

but he's probably read it. I would assume, Oh yeah, we read that book. He's, he's, yeah, I think that's like, to me, just like the a picture of, like, the African American experience in, like, a segment of history. Because I just feel like, sometimes you'll be like, yeah, there's slavery. And then they, like, jump to the civil rights movement, and you're like, what was happening reconstruction to, like, the 50s. You're like, What the hell is happening there? And it's like, right, some bad shit. And, and, um, yeah, I just think that book like a masterpiece, perfect masterpiece.

Traci Thomas 1:01:18

Yeah. It's like, we call I we call books that are like, really important to us as readers around here, we call them books of our life. And that's a book of my life, yeah, that is not necessarily like a favorite book, though this one particular is, but it's just like a book that is like meaningful to you from a point in your life. And this one is probably the book of my life,

Kara Brown 1:01:36

and I think it's for I think for black people. It's very important. But also there's just, like, the depth, like, the depth of black history in the United States, that isn't slavery, that isn't, you know, like, which is important, but like, and the danger people's lives were in, yeah, in, in for so long, I think, is just not, we just think of it as very kind of binary. Like, you think of it as like, Oh, you think of a slavery. You think of like, water fountains and shit and and then also a question I had not asked myself before I read that book. You're like, Yeah, how did everybody get from the South to other places?

Traci Thomas 1:02:15

Like, what? Like, I'm from Oakland, and this has been talked about a lot recently with Ryan Coogler, yeah. I'm like, why do we all have Southern accents in Oakland? Like, why does Kendrick Lamar talk like that, right? And it's like, oh, because we're all from Louisiana, yeah? Like, we all did the same route, and that's why people from you know, Chicago are like, a different kind of black, yeah? Like, it's like, you guys are like,

Kara Brown 1:02:37

yeah. Like, the food that people brought with them, like, I just think it, it's like our history here has not been that long, like, sort of relative to, just like Earth, but like, it is so full and rich and like, I just think that book I have not seen a better example of of sort of laying that, laying that all out.

Traci Thomas 1:02:59

So good. Okay. Kara's done for today. She's out of here. She's sick. She's sick of you, she's sick of me. But lucky for us, she will be back on May 28 for our discussion of devil in a blue dress by Walter Mosley. It is his debut book. It's his first book, and it's the first book in the easy roll in series, which is he's still writing them. He has a new one coming out this year. It's the last one. He said, Yeah, he started it. And he started the series in 1990 so it's, wow, five years. Wow. Easy is not so easy anymore. He's he's getting around harder, I think. But we're going to discuss that. There will be spoilers. So read the book with us. Come back and listen, Kara, this was amazing. Thank you so much. You met all the expectations I had for me seven years ago. I had not.

Kara Brown 1:03:48

I mean, I know we started with that, but I think I immediately forgot that, that there was a high bar to clear, and so you cleared, Oh, thank God, up

Traci Thomas 1:03:59

and over. I don't know a high jumper to reference here, but you did it.

Kara Brown 1:04:02

And I'm going to do even better the next time.

Traci Thomas 1:04:05

Yeah, you are and everyone else, we will see you in the stacks.

All right, y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to Kara Brown for joining the show. Remember our book club pick for May is Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley, which we will discuss on Wednesday, May 28 with our guest Kara Brown. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks. To join The Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com make sure to subscribe to The Stacks. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review for more from The Stacks. Follow us on social media @thestackspod on Instagram, Threads and Tiktok, and check out our website, thestackspodcast.com this episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas, with production assistance from Megan Caballero and Wy'Kia Frelot. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

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Ep. 369 Blessing the Boats by Lucille Clifton — The Stacks Book Club (Tiana Clark)