Ep. 390 What Happened in Those 107 Days with Kamala Harris

Written By Stacks Assistant

Today on The Stacks we are joined by former Vice President, Kamala Harris. She is here to discuss her brand new book 107 Days, which chronicles her historic run for the presidency in 2024. In our conversation we cover her biggest regrets from Biden to Gaza, how she balanced her instincts with the political polling, and what she sees as the path forward for America.

The Stacks Book Club pick for September is The Lilac People by Milo Todd. We will discuss the book on Wednesday, September 24th with Denne Michele Norris.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

To support The Stacks and find out more from this week’s sponsors, click here.
Connect with Kamala: Instagram | Threads | Twitter | Facebook | Website
Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | Threads | Shop | Patreon | Goodreads | Substack | Youtube | Subscribe

To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. If you prefer to support the show with a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod.

The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website.

TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Kamala Harris 0:00

You know, I think there are many flaws in our system, and we set these legislators up with an expectation that within two years, they're going to get something substantial done, but anything that is intractable, that is challenging our society, we're not going to figure out in just two years from soup to nuts. We have a right to expect that our politicians are going to solve problems.

Traci Thomas 0:30

Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today it is one of the great honors of my life to welcome to the podcast vice president Kamala Harris. She is here to talk about her brand new book, 107 days, which is out now. The Vice President and I talk about her campaign, both the highlights and the missteps. We also talk about the impact of political polling, and she shares her vision for America's future. The Stacks Book Club Pick for September is The Lilac People by Milo Todd, which I will be discussing with Denne Michele Norris on Wednesday, September 24. Everything we talk about on each episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. Listen, I know that my little indie book podcast, the stacks, this is probably the first time you're listening to it, so if you like what you hear, please consider supporting my work and supporting the work of independent media by joining the stacks pack our online literary community at Patreon.com/thestacks, and subscribing to my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com. You earn perks. You get a lot of hot takes from me, plus you get to know that your money is going to making this show possible. And don't forget, new episodes of The Stacks are out every Wednesday. All right, now it is time for my conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris.

Traci Thomas 1:53

All right, everybody when I say that I'm excited about today's guest, it is the understatement of maybe my entire life. I am so thrilled to be joined today by Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to the Stacks.

Kamala Harris 2:07

Traci. It's great to be on The Stacks with you.

Traci Thomas 2:11

I mean, this is a dream come true. So thank you so much. We're going to talk about the book, 107 Days. I've read your other books, and that's kind of where I want to start you. Your first two books are sort of, you know, you're introducing yourself to the world. You're introducing yourself we know it's the it's the typical political memoir of like this is what I believe in. This is who I am. With this book, you're stepping into a totally different audience. Everyone knows you. Everyone knows what's supposed to be in this book. How are you approaching this differently? What does it feel like?

Kamala Harris 2:45

So this book, I mean, I-- So, you're right. The last book I wrote, The Truths W Hold. And then before that was Smart on Crime, which was my theory about criminal justice policy, you know, from 20 years ago. But the last book was, was really, I think, it, yes, a memoir. It was about my life story, and in explaining who I am and the influences on my life, this book is not a memoir. This book, I think you should think of as a political thriller, nonfiction. Yeah, right. It's, it's about 107 Days, and that's I, you know, I didn't get creative with the title. I just named the book. What it is. It's about those 107 days and a campaign that, you know, millions of people were a part of, most of whom I never met and were on that journey. We're watching it. We're participating. And I just felt it was so important to capture the behind the scenes aspect of it, but also to capture, I mean, I met on the road in our country, so many amazing people and and to share, hopefully in this book, the vision that I had of them in all of these places, to share it with the rest of us in a way that hopefully reminds us that we as Americans really do have an incredible amount of optimism and hope for the future of our country. And I know we're in dark times right now, but we can't lose sight that that also is a part of who we are, that we do retain that kind of hope and belief in the future, and especially right now. I think we need to remember that we can't let that die.

Traci Thomas 4:35

Yeah, I mean, I think I do want to talk about the dark days we're in now, but I think maybe we should do that later. I want to. I do want to. I want to start with some of the book stuff, because I, I don't want to spend all my time talking about the other person you know. Like, it's like, this is your book. You've written this book, and it's definitely a moment. And I think, you know, I, I'm plugged in to the news. I know what's being talked about. I read the piece in The Atlantic, obviously. And. Yeah, you know, the big sound bite that's already coming out is sort of what was going on with you and Joe Biden. And you know this comment of, like, were we being reckless by not sitting down and having these conversations? And I think my first real question about that is, when did you know that like, maybe this isn't the best idea, like, when was the first time? Because I know for some people it was when Ezra Klein talked about it on the New York Times podcast. And I know for some people it wasn't until you know the debate. And so when was it for you that you started to feel like maybe I should be part of this conversation?

Kamala Harris 5:36

So let me start by saying this, this book is not about Joe Biden.

Traci Thomas 5:39

No, it's not.

Kamala Harris 5:40

And this book is not about my vice presidency. This book is about 107 days, and putting those 107 days in context where it's necessary. But you're right. I do you know the book was the product of many months that I had after the election and after I came back after the inauguration, to just reflect. And part of those reflections included realizing I should have said something. And and as you know, I write, you know, was it I had to ask myself, was it grace, or was it reckless? On my behalf. I won't speak for others, but on my behalf, to have not raised it with him, and meaning the concern about was he really up to running? Right? Because that's what I'm talking about. I don't have any question about his capacity to have done the job of being President, and the job he was doing. It was about. Was he up to running for re election, as I described and, you know, running for President of United States, running for any office but President of United States, it's like being in a marathon at a sprinter's pace while tomatoes are being thrown every step you take.

Traci Thomas 7:04

Right?

Kamala Harris 7:04

It's an endurance test. It is extremely taxing on every element of who you are. So yes, I I realized that I probably should have said something, and that is one of the regrets that I have to be honest and and I have been probably more candid in writing and in my reflections than people thought I would be, but I just think it's important to be honest about just what it was so that we can move forward.

Traci Thomas 7:34

Right. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate about the book, is that you are super candid with us. And you do sort of share these. There were moments in the book where I was like, "Oh, didn't think I was gonna get that." Like, when you have the list of what everybody said to you after sort of Joe Biden's announcement, and I'm like, going through, you know? And I was like, Oh, didn't know we were gonna get Newsom's moment. I'll leave that for people. I won't spoil the Newsom moment. But I wasn't, you know, I was I felt like, Oh, she's really letting us in, which I think is to be frank, the question that people often have with books like this, you know, how far is the author gonna go? Are they really gonna tell us what they were thinking and feeling? And I do, I do feel like as the reader, I got a way better sense of your mindset. I also was thrilled to see some of my absolute favorite political people show up in the book, including David Plouffe. I am his number one fan. I volunteered on the Obama campaign when I was 18 or 22 and I remember I used to wait up for the field organizing calls so that I could listen to David Plouffe. So I was like, I didn't even know I was so excited. So shout out to him. I want to know when you're in this sprint marathon.

Kamala Harris 8:45

Yeah.

Traci Thomas 8:45

With the tomatoes, and there's all this stuff going on, and you're you have this whole team of people. You've all been mobilized for only 107 days. You're figuring it out as you go. How much are you relying on your political instincts, and how much are you relying on outside voices? And does that get confusing for you? Because there are moments in the book famously, I think you know the Pete Butte--Buttigieg question of you wanted him, but you weren't sure it was going to work out, because you understood and outside voices. So what is that balance like for you? Because you have great political instincts. You're Kamala Harris, you're the vice president like you're not a slouch, right? So how do you balance all that noise with you?

Kamala Harris 9:28

So you know those first many chapters around the first two weeks, no political polling. We had no polling. We had no just nothing. It was pure instinct. So when I came up with the whole speech about I know his type, right? That was pure political. It was my instinct. Like, you know, if I just break down who this guy is, the guy I'm running against, and if you just deconstruct who he is based on even through my lens of experience. It's as a prosecutor, you know who this guy, you know his type, right? Or when I, I came up with this line that, you know, because I make America great again. And well, what does that mean again? Like we're going backward. And so I came up with this line just kind of spontaneously, we're not going back. And then the crowd just picks up on it and just runs, we're not going back. We're not going back. And it became a line of the campaign, right? And so to your point, instinct, at least for the beginning and when we were really ramping up in gaining momentum, was the driving force. It was not polling, but it's a campaign for president, and polling must be done. Polling is done. And honestly, I mean, part of what I also try to do with this book is take us beyond the campaign to where we need to go as a future, right and in our future. And part of the candor that I hope I bring to this discussion is, we also need to be frank about what's not working in terms of the way we run campaigns. So polling, you know, polling is, it's a flawed process. A lot of polling is, we want to get back that. What we thought was right.

Traci Thomas 11:19

Right.

Kamala Harris 11:19

We're supposed to--

Traci Thomas 11:21

Right, right.

Kamala Harris 11:22

Where are the people? What are they really thinking instead of just, let's pull to test our message, the message that we decided is a good message, yeah. And I think that's part of what's flawed, and that's part of what I want us to think about as we move forward, and how we're all thinking, especially those in politics, about are we really relevant to the concerns, the dreams, the hopes of the American people? But you know, yeah, so polling can sometimes override your instinct, because you're just presented with all this data that says this is what people think or not, and sometimes I think it's just important to trust your life experience that your gut might actually be right, even when the pollsters don't think that it's correct.

Traci Thomas 12:08

Talking about just the length of the campaign and sort of, I think, I think one of the things that's really challenging for a lot of Americans, and I'm sure you feel this way, and you probably get this feedback, is how long these election cycles generally, are right. I think when it comes to your congress person, it's like the day they get in, they start campaigning again. You know, we're getting these emails, we're getting these texts. Support us. Do this, do that. And there's this urgency and this obsession with time. And obviously, in your case, there's an extreme obsession with time, because you have so little, especially compared to everyone else. But I'm wondering what you think about sort of that juxtaposed with the feeling and the conversation of progress takes time and having to constantly tell the voter quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, so that we can wait, you know, so that we can hope that Washington will push this through. How do you navigate that as someone who legislates and someone who, who represents people, but also is wanting of this support that is going to eventually take a long time.

Kamala Harris 13:09

You know, I think there are many flaws in our system, and you're right. I mean members of Congress on the House side their terms of two years, and when they're up for re election, the biggest point that their opponent will make is, yeah, the only thing you got done was naming a post office box or right? Yeah. But if you want to, actually, if we want our legislators to come up with policy that actually can be implemented, right? So that it makes sense. It's been well thought out researched. It's not going to come, it's not going to come through its whole process within two years, right? And so there is something about the one aspect of the flaw is that we have this we set these legislators up with an expectation that within two years they're going to get something substantial done, but anything that is intractable, that is is challenging our society, I doubt, and I know this to be true, we're not going to figure out in just two years from soup to nuts, right? But we also have to give people more grace.

Traci Thomas 14:22

Yeah.

Kamala Harris 14:23

And maybe that requires us to trust them, and they have to earn that trust, of course, but--

Traci Thomas 14:28

Them being politicians.

Kamala Harris 14:30

Yes and to give them the grace, and hopefully they earn our trust to do that so that they can actually dig deep on big issues and fix the problems that the American people face. And so that's one of the issues. I think there. The issue about time is also, you know, I talk a lot about this, we we expect that our leaders are going to have the plan, you know. Part of the book where I talk about it, because my mother was a scientist, yeah, and, and, you know, and scientists, like many academics, they don't operate expecting that everybody has the plan, uppercase T, uppercase p, right. Instead, they encourage hypotheses, right? Come up with a hypothesis and then test it out, because we know the first time you roll it out, there is going to be a glitch. Reconvene, don't make the same mistake twice, but you're not going to be penalized for it, because, after all, it was a hypothesis, right? We want politicians to have the plan. They run on the plan no matter how flawed it is, and then they have to spend full time defending a flawed plan, right? So there's something about how we're doing politics right now in the way that we've set up expectations, that is, I think setting up reason unreasonable expectations. We have a right to expect that our politicians are going to solve problems. I think we have to look at how the system is designed to ask, is it actually conducive to solving those problems?

Traci Thomas 16:08

If you could make wave a magic wand and make it different, how would you change that? What would be the answer to the hypothesis versus a flawed plan situation?

Kamala Harris 16:19

I think we would. We would not expect that good public policy ends with an exclamation point, because it rarely does. Yeah, we would encourage that there would be discussions about and an open conversation about theories about how we will actually fix things, and that we would allow for a certain level of humility, instead of what we do, which is, I think, encourage arrogance in these people who are running.

Traci Thomas 16:50

Yeah. I mean, I think we even reward it in a lot of I think.

Kamala Harris 16:53

Yes, I agree with you.

Traci Thomas 16:54

I think there's a sense of what a politician should be and a kind of personality that they should have, and that if politicians don't have that, or they don't look that way, or they don't present in that way, it's almost they're immediately shut down. And I think, you know, we're seeing, I mean, we're seeing where that gets us right, like we're in a situation now where we have a lot of really loud people saying a lot of different things. You know, on both sides, with the level of arrogance that is just stunning, because it feels so far removed from all the conversations that I feel that I'm having with my friends and family and that I think other people are having. There's just such a disconnect. And I do think a lot of it is just ego, but I guess on the flip side of that, the kind of person who wants to run for office in a lot of these ways, like, has to have a huge ego to be like, pick me, choose me.

Kamala Harris 17:47

And have an ego because you believe in what you're saying and because you have, you know, we, I don't expect that people would be without ego, because that all, that's the right? That's the other chart, right? You know, we want people have a certain level of confidence, because if you if you believe in what you stand for, often, especially if you're talking about the people who need support the most, you're gonna have to fight for it. And if you don't have a healthy ego, you're not going to have the strength to be able to do that right. But what I think is lacking is we are not encouraging a debate about what does strength look like, right, and rejecting the notion that the measure of strength is based on who you beat down, as opposed to the real measure of strength being who you lift up, right and right now, in this environment in particular, There are so many signals that are suggesting that the strong person is the one who knows how to beat people down, minimize people, depreciate people, marginalize people, as opposed to those who respect the dignity in other human beings.

Traci Thomas 18:57

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think there's two issues I think, in the campaign, if as an outsider, that I think you highlight in the book, that I think stick out to me as having been particularly challenging for your campaign. One of them was what's happening in Gaza, and the other was trans rights and trans people. And you know, famously, the Trump campaign ran that ad during all the games about, you know, calmness, were they them, that whole thing? And I think the other side of it is this conversation about who was included, had a seat at the table when it came to Palestinians, and the conversation of America and our allyship with Israel in the face of utter brutalization. And I think, you know, as I was reading the book, my big question, and I guess it's kind of on the topic of both of these things, is there's so much centering of, sort of the the aggressor, like the person with the power. And I feel like we're, we're leaving out so many people. I think, you know, the conversation when it comes to Gaza in the book, you. Know, you talk a lot about like there are Israel's our allies, they're our friends. They're not doing things that we like, but they're still our friend. And it kind of ignores what's happening to the people you know, if we're centering the you know what I'm saying. And so I guess I'm wondering for you, because those feel like two big issues that came up, how would you have handled them differently? Is there a way that you see that maybe you misstepped or you missed what people were saying to you about them, and you would go back and fix or readdress?

Kamala Harris 20:31

Well, you're right to bring this up, because that, again, is, I think, what has surprised people about this book. I'm very honest about my regrets and what in, you know, reflection, I think I or we, but I will only speak for myself, because that's that's where I have agency, where we could have done things differently on the issue of Israel. I mean, listen, I don't regret that we said that Israel had a right to defend itself after the atrocities of October 7. And I also said continuously, but how it does matters as I reflect on, especially as time went on after October 7, what we fail to do around you know, we have great power and leverage, and I and I regret that we did not exercise that leverage in a way that I think we could have. And I look at what's happening now in Gaza, and I mean, my heart breaks. It has been breaking in terms of what is happening there. I gave a speech again. You know, I reflected on that in terms of in the context of the campaign, I gave a speech a year and a half ago now, the first person at the highest level of the administration on the starvation in Gaza. It was at the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge on the at the anniversary the commemoration of Bloody Sunday, and I took a lot of heat for it. But I look at what's happening now, and it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. And you know, on the trans piece, it's just we can't condone an environment where there's there, I mean, first of all, it's such a small fraction of the percentage of the population.

Traci Thomas 22:28

Yes.

Kamala Harris 22:29

And who are living in such incredible fear. And I think it's important to recognize that it's important to you know in the conversation, yes, let us please respect the right of parents to weigh in on their concerns about their children, their girls in sports and all that. So I absolutely, and let's recognize that there is also an environment that is making this very, very small population of people because of the way they're being vilified live in abject fear, and I think we've got to deal with that. My part of my regret in the campaign is I should have pushed back more on that one what on what they were doing, right?

Traci Thomas 23:17

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the piece of the trans piece for me, and we're both from Oakland. We're both Bay Area, Bay Area people. So, you know, I think sometimes growing up in a place like Oakland, I think I forget a little bit of what other people are feeling or seeing in the world. Because not only was I raised in Oakland, but I was raised by some really incredible progressive humans. But I do think, you know, with the trans issue and the kids in the sports piece of it, it has gotten so out of whack that like kids playing sports has turned into, it's okay to completely like attack in a race and do all these things. I mean, in the in that section, you have numbers, and you talk about, you know, this issue is both politics and people anAd the people part of it is, it's like, there's 10, 10, people competing in women's sports who are transgender at the collegiate level. There are two people who had received, received the gender reassignment surgery in 2024 or not even the surgery, but just gender reaffirming care in 2024 imprisoned. And that there was something like 3000 people who had been targeted, and 40%--

Kamala Harris 24:19

Here's the thing I laid that out for a couple of reasons.

Traci Thomas 24:23

Yeah.

Kamala Harris 24:23

Including this. How is it that, one must ask, it became such a big issue? Yeah?

Traci Thomas 24:32

Well, that's what I think I mean, yeah. Yes.

Kamala Harris 24:34

And I think that, you know, we have to, really, we have to think about that. But, you know, I think it was there. There are many aspects of this campaign that really do highlight also, you know, that there were a lot of distractions from yes issues, yeah, the biggest issue being affordability. Yep. And you think about it, and this is part of why I wrote the book, to remind us of something, many things, including, look, Trump ran on a campaign where he made so many promises to the people who voted for him, and he has broken so many of those promises. And we knew that was going to happen. He said he was going to bring down prices on day one. And you look at today, the cost of food is up, unemployment is up, inflation is up, promises made and broken to people who believed him.

Traci Thomas 24:36

Right.

Kamala Harris 24:40

And then you look at the promises that he made, that he kept weaponizing the Department of Justice against his political enemies, retribution, silencing the media, putting military on the streets of America, lining his pockets and those of billionaires With a tax policy that is about helping the richest people in the country on the backs of working people. And because, of course, the promises he breaks are the promises where he benefits, right? Yeah, and then you look at what I mean, immigration, mass deportations, we knew what was going to happen. He told us I was talking to a friend recently who told me she she was talking to this gentleman who was a big Trump supporter, and he's Cuban and in Miami, and his girlfriend, I don't know common law, wife, but his partner of 20 something years, who was also Cuban, is under deportation proceedings to be sent to Sudan. And so my friend says to him, Well, how do you think this happened? Well, he didn't say he said he was, he said he was going to go after criminals. He didn't say this. Sure. Yeah. And so I think it's just really important for us to also, as we look at where we are right now in 2025 and think about what happened in those 107 days, we've got to remember that he told us what he was going to do, right? They told us what they were going to do, and they're doing it. And as we look forward to midterms, as we look forward to any future election cycle, listen to what they tell us, and they've been because it's bigger than Trump, yeah, it's about a whole lot of people around him, in elected office, in appointed office, who are facilitating an agenda that has been decades in the making. And I hope that one of the takeaways from this book is in reminding people of that, to remind us that the fight takes some time, but we gotta fight.

Traci Thomas 28:00

Yeah, okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.

Traci Thomas 28:07

Okay, I wanna shift totally so for people who are new to my podcast, who I assume will be because you're here. Thanks for being here. This is actually a podcast about books, believe it or not, and there's a few questions that I ask almost every author who comes on the show. One of them is, how do you write? How often? Where are you? Are there snacks and beverages? Are there rituals? What is set the scene for us? How does this book come to be okay?

Kamala Harris 28:34

So first of all, just in terms of overall rituals, I pretty much other than having like, tea in the morning, the first thing I have to do is work out. Okay, I don't do anything else before I've worked out. So that happens first. And you're an elliptical person, although recently, I've been kind of trying to do a little weights with the treadmill.

Traci Thomas 28:55

Whatever are you, there's my and what kind of tea?

Kamala Harris 28:59

Black tea with honey and lemon with honey. And sometimes--

Traci Thomas 29:02

I'm a black tea with half and half and sugar, really.

Kamala Harris 29:05

Oh, I was that person, yeah, not any longer, but it is delicious, I get you. And then it's in my sweats, you know, shower and all that, in my sweats at my desk, and I have my favorite blue pen. And you know, I'm old school that way, like, just give me a yellow pad and a pen, and I'm really happy.

Traci Thomas 29:29

Like this?

Kamala Harris 29:31

There you go. That's it. That's exactly

Traci Thomas 29:34

I'm a black and black ink. I like a black ink.

Kamala Harris 29:36

Well, I'm blue ink. I'm total blue ink. And in fact, people have made fun of me because I have this one favorite pen that is not, it's like it there it comes in a box. It's not like many of them. And people have made fun of me and I'm like, you know what? I'm I'm going to take that because, if that's the sign of somebody who likes to write.

Traci Thomas 29:55

Yes.

Kamala Harris 29:55

They have a favorite kind of pen. So I'm not going to take that crap about. Like, Oh, she's got this fetish about that certain pen.

Traci Thomas 30:03

No, there's very many people who have come on this podcast who have talked about a pen, a paper, whatever.

Kamala Harris 30:09

It's your writing tool.

Traci Thomas 30:11

It's your thing, it's your job, your writing. Okay, what about what's the word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

Kamala Harris 30:19

It's really awful. I'm really embarrassed. I've never told anybody: their, the possessive their.

Traci Thomas 30:26

All three theres?

Kamala Harris 30:27

No. I can do there, like there, like there, meaning over there,

Traci Thomas 30:32

Yes.

Kamala Harris 30:33

But if I'm talking about their, meaning those people's "their", that i and e mess me up all fo the time, all of the time.

Traci Thomas 30:43

I love this!

Kamala Harris 30:44

I before E except afer C.

Traci Thomas 30:48

I love this honestly. The reason I asked this question is because I started doing this podcast years ago, and then I'm a terrible speller, like I can never spell anything. And I thought, you know, I bet some of these writers who I think are just so brilliant can't spell either. So I started asking this question, and it's one of my favorite ones, because everyone is there's either I can't spell anything, or I have this one word. Or, sorry to disappoint you, I won my spelling bee, and I'm amazing. And usually those people we boo, we're like, no thanks.

Kamala Harris 31:16

It's the i and e, it just--

Traci Thomas 31:17

Yeah.

Kamala Harris 31:18

On that one word.

Traci Thomas 31:20

it's okay. We all have our flaws. You know, confession on this book you worked with Geraldine Brooks, famous novelist, yes, I want to know. Why did you want to bring her in? What were you hoping was going to happen with this partnership?

Kamala Harris 31:35

Well, first of all, let me say that through this partnership, we formed a really incredible friendship. I just, she's, she's an incredible human and, you know, she was a serious journalist, she's a serious writer, an award winning writer, and I wanted to work with someone who would get it, you know, who would understand the the depth and nuance of the issues. But at the same time, it was really important for me to write a book that was not the run of the mill. Somebody who's run for office writes a book and it's, you know, whatever I wanted it to read like a novel, and because that's how I experienced it, you know, that old kind of cliche about fact is stranger than fiction. It often is, it often is. And so writing it in a way that the reader will like I said, it's basically a book that is a political thriller, nonfiction, and so that's what it was. But I'm a huge fan of hers. I was a fan of her work even before we started collaborating.

Traci Thomas 32:39

What other books do you love? What are? What are if you were going to do your Barack Obama book list, which I think you should, I think we need more politician book lists. I would vote yes. What would you put on yours? What are some of the best things you've read recently?

Kamala Harris 32:51

One of my, one of the books that I read recently that I just absolutely enjoyed is How to Say Babylon. It's just an incredible book about a woman's journey. Again, it's it's, she's telling a true story about her own life and her family.

Traci Thomas 33:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kamala Harris 33:04

So that was great. I love that book. And then, um, Master, Slave, Husband, Wife.

Traci Thomas 33:10

Husband--we did that for book club!

Kamala Harris 33:12

Yes. So I'm not finished with it, but I'm reading, that's what I'm reading, right? That's by bed right now.

Traci Thomas 33:18

Yeah, I love it. Okay, before we get out of here, I want to ask you about the future. I think you know, we started here talking about what scary time it is in our country. I think most people listening to this conversation are probably feeling similarly about that. What you know, give us advice. Be, help us. What do we do? Where do we go?

Kamala Harris 33:41

First of all, I mean, part of what I realized at this stage of my life and career, that I am willing to confess I don't have all the answers. Sure, it's driving me crazy, though I don't have I just realized I don't have all the answers right now, but I have some, and one of them that I've always known we have to fight, and we have to know that the fight takes a while, but we cannot give up. We cannot let our spirits be defeated right? Then they're really winning, like there, and we cannot define our success based on any particular election cycle, either, right? And and so part of what I want just everyone to remember is, you know, and this is part of what I hope the reader will take away, is just to be reminded of that energy and that excitement and that hope and that's in us. Nobody gave it to anybody who showed up or felt something about that time. It was in us, and it's still in us, and we're in a dark moment right now, to be sure. And it may get worse, okay, but. We each still have some light in us, and we got to tap into that and into the light in each other in a way that reminds us of our power and our ability to fight for what we know is right. We're fighting for something, not against something. And let's not be defeated. Let's not be defeated.

Traci Thomas 35:22

And you know, I have to ask the question that everyone's going to ask you, which is, are you running again for public office?

Kamala Harris 35:29

I am not focused on that right now. I've got my book tour. I'm really excited about that. I'm going to be traveling and talking with folks I really do want to listen. I mean, that's one of the reasons I decided not to run for governor of California. I just, I want to be able to listen to people without asking them for something.

Traci Thomas 35:48

Yeah.

Kamala Harris 35:49

I'm not, I don't want to ask for your vote. I want to just, I don't want it to be transactional, you know, I just want to think people have a lot to say, and they're feeling a whole lot, people are feeling a whole lot.

Traci Thomas 36:03

I think you're right about that for sure. Well, here's my last question, if you could have one person dead or alive, read 107 Days. Who would you want it to be?

Kamala Harris 36:12

My mother.

Traci Thomas 36:12

Of course. Yeah. Well, Madam Vice President Kamala Harris, this has been truly one of the great honors of my professional career and of my life. I am a supporter. I am a fan, and just really honored that you took the time to come do a little book podcast.

Kamala Harris 36:31

Thank you for doing this podcast. It's so exciting, and you're creating such a great place for community and for the exchange of thoughts and feelings and ideas, and we all need that right now. So thank you for what you're doing.

Traci Thomas 36:43

Thank you. Thank you and everyone else. We will see you in The Stacks.

Kamala Harris 36:46

See you later.

Traci Thomas 36:54

All right, y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you, of course, to Vice President Kamala Harris. What an honor. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to her amazing team, Liz Biber, Kirsten Allen, Julia Prosser and Juan Dromgool. And don't forget, new episodes of The Stacks are out every Wednesday. The Stacks Book Club Pick for September is The Lilac People by Milo Todd, which we will be discussing on Wednesday, September 24 with Denne Michele Norris. If you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks and join The Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter at tracithomas.substack.com, make sure you're subscribed to The Stacks, wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review for more from The Stacks. Follow us on social media @thestackspod on Instagram, Threads, and Tiktok, and check out our website at thestackspodcast.com. Today's episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas, with production assistance from Wy'Kia Frelot. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is by Tagirijus. The Stacks was created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Stacks Assistant
Previous

Ep. 391 The Lilac People by Milo Todd — The Stacks Book Club (Denne Michele Norris)
Next

Ep. 389 The Resort Is a Microcosm of Society with Cleyvis Natera