Ep. 397 A Book Club in a Weekend with Mikey Friedman

Written By Stacks Assistant

Today on The Stacks, we are joined by Mikey Friedman, the founder of Page Break, a New York–based, weekend-long retreat centered on community reading. We discuss all things Page Break, including how it came to be, the book selection process, the focus on fiction, and why reading aloud is at the heart of the experience. Plus, tune in for a special announcement.

The Stacks Book Club pick for November is We the Animals by Justin Torres. We will discuss the book on Wednesday, November 26th, with Mikey Friedman.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

To support The Stacks and find out more from this week’s sponsors, click here.
Connect with Mikey: Instagram | TikTok
Connect with Page Break: Instagram | Website
Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | Threads | Shop | Patreon | Goodreads | Substack | Youtube | Subscribe

To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. If you prefer to support the show with a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod.

The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website.

TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Mikey Friedman 0:00

I always read the book in advance quietly, and then we go on the retreat. We read the I read the same book aloud again, and I'm like, I missed, like, so much detail in this book. It's like, kind of freaking me out. And on Page Break, you have 15 different audio book narrators sitting in a circle with you, basically. And it's unlike an audio book only, and it's not like, reading only, it's actually the two together. So it just creates this really rich, like, close reading of the book. And authors, when they come on Page Break multiple authors always are like, Wow, you guys, like, really read the book. Like, you know, they're like, Yeah, you were, you were in it. Like, you're asking me questions that I haven't even, like, considered because of, like, the level of depth that we're really getting into the pages, and like the way things are phrased, and like the minute my new details that you don't get when you just do it on your own.

Traci Thomas 0:53

Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Traci Thomas, and today I am joined by Mikey Friedman. Mikey is the founder of Page Break, a New York based weekend long retreat centered on reading one novel together out loud as a community. Today, Mikey and I talk about his inspiration behind Page Break, his goals for the future of the retreat and some books that have shaped his life as a reader. Plus we share a special announcement. Mikey will also be returning on Wednesday, November 26 to discuss our November book club pick, We the Animals by Justin Torres. Everything we talk about on each episode of The Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. If you like this podcast, if you want more bookish content and community, consider joining The Stacks Pack on Patreon and subscribing to my newsletter, unstacked on Substack. Each place offers different perks, like community conversation, virtual book clubs over on Patreon, and my writing and hot takes on the latest literary and pop culture news on substack. But no matter which one you join, Your support makes it possible for me to make the stacks every single week. Go to patreon.com/thestacks to join the stacks pack and head to TraciThomas.substack.com. To subscribe to the newsletter. All right, now it's time for my conversation with Mikey Friedman.

All right, everybody. I'm really excited today I am joined by one of my newest friends in the book world universe. His name is Mikey Friedman. He is the creator of Page Break, which is a out loud reading retreat extravaganza. I'm gonna let him explain it to you, but first, I just want to say, Mikey, welcome to The Stacks.

Mikey Friedman 2:39

Thank you, Traci, honored to be here.

Traci Thomas 2:42

I'm honored to have you. I'm so excited. I guess we should before we even get to Page Break. Yeah, I want a little bit about you. Where are you from? Where did you grow up? What's your relationship to books? Give me just like a little something something.

Mikey Friedman 2:57

Well, I grew up in Amherst, Massachusetts. I like to always point out Western Mass not Boston. And I studied advertising in undergrad at Syracuse and moved to the city to pursue advertising. Worked in ad agencies for 10 years prior to doing Page Break. Still do some marketing freelance stuff to pay for my extravagant lifestyle, but the goal is to do Page Break full time. And yeah, I live in Brooklyn, in Bedstuy. Reading has been I've sort of come into reading later in life, I think maybe compared to some other guests you've had in the past. But really, in college, I started reading more like queer novels, and had a few classes that got me excited about reading. And then, you know, the inspiration to launch Page Break, which we'll talk about, was like as much about the experience of bringing people together as it is the books, if not more. And Page Break is a fusion of all my favorite things in one weekend. It's meeting new people. It's amazing restaurant quality meals. It's drinking wine and it's reading aloud together. So I'm certainly not the most well read guest you've had on this show, but I'm very passionate about bringing people together through the power of books and reading aloud.

Traci Thomas 4:08

Well, let me tell you a secret. I'm also not the most well read person I've had on this show by far. Oh my God, no, I have people on the show, and I'm like, so embarrassed. I'm like, I've never read that. I've never heard of that. I don't know what you're saying, and I just kind of go like this, oh, yeah, wow. I love that.

Mikey Friedman 4:24

Okay, that's good, yeah, yeah.

Traci Thomas 4:27

And now that I release, like, some of these video, like clips of the show, it's can be a little bit embarrassing, because I think you can see on my face when I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Mikey Friedman 4:31

You used to be able to hide behind the audio

Traci Thomas 4:39

And now I'll sometimes watch back the video and I'm like, can't use that clip, because you look like an idiot

Mikey Friedman 4:46

Don't roll your eyes at me, Traci

Traci Thomas 4:48

No, that's allowed. It's the rolling eyes is fine. Yeah, it's the blank stare when someone's like, Moby Dick. And I'm like, oh, okay. Okay, wait before we get to Page Break, before we get to Page Break, you and I connected through an earlier guest of the show from this year, Ira Madison, III. How do you know Ira?

Mikey Friedman 5:11

I met Ira at a dinner in New York through our mutual friend Alex, and we've just become fun New York literary friends. And I know I remember, I think I was like, on the subway or something, when I listened to The Stacks episode with you and Ira. And it was like, still so early in the Page Break story, like, I think it was only after the first few retreats, and it was such a pinch me moment for me just to, like, hear two, two, like, really well known, amazing people in the book world, like, talking about my project. And so that was so special, and that was so cool that I get to be on The Stacks too.

Traci Thomas 5:43

I'm so excited. Okay, wait, take us to the creation of Page Break. You're working in advertising. You're reading a little bit here and there. At what point are you like, I've got an idea. I should start a book retreat, weekend extravaganza company.

Mikey Friedman 6:00

So it was 2019, before covid, and I was like, just talking to my friend in his kitchen about how I like reading gay novels. I would love to, like, connect with people in a different way than, like, just like partying and going out to restaurants in New York, which is, like very much core to my activity list, still to this day. But I was like, trying to find a new way to meet new people. And I was like, oh, obviously I should join a book club, right? Like, that's a thing that people do. But we sort of had this extended conversation about how the idea of joining a book club, if you're, like, a busy New Yorker and travel a lot and have work events and like, the format doesn't always work, and committing to an eight week meeting in a, you know, bookstore in the Lower East Side or a virtual it's just, like, hard to fit into your schedule, yeah, and it's riddled with a lot of anxiety. And, you know, there's some interesting stats as I got into this project, of, like, most book clubs don't last for that reason. Like, it's hard logistically, people come in and out. It's maybe not scratching the itch for everyone as much as it could. So then I was like, Okay, I'm not going to join a book club, actually, like, in that same conversation, and then maybe two minutes later, he was like, oh, we should also, like, I was thinking we could get all of our friends and go upstate for a weekend and have like, a cute, you know, fall moment upstate. I was like, Wait, what if we just did the book club in a weekend? So it's like, no one has to do the schedule thing. We can just, like, knock it out, so to speak, and then we can, like, really get into it, versus, like, taking breaks and having homework and, yeah, doing that whole thing. And then I was like, reading retreats are certainly a thing. Like, I didn't, definitely didn't invent reading retreats, no, but I went down this whole rabbit hole and started doing a ton of research on them, and it felt like there weren't any that really appealed to me personally, in terms of like, my interests and my tastes. And then I came across this organization in the UK called The Reader, which is a NHS funded public health organization that goes into prisons and nursing homes and schools and reads aloud as group therapy for adults. Of course, they have it figured out. We don't, we don't even have healthcare, but they, they go into and they, because it's funded by the NHS, they have all this incredible research, because tax dollars are going towards this service. And like 97 Don't quote me on this. 97% of people feel more emotionally connected to each other after leaving one of these sessions, it helps the comprehension. It makes people feel less alone in the world. And then I was like, Wait, it is kind of crazy that adults don't read aloud to each other or read aloud, period. Yeah, if you're a parent, you might read aloud to your kid. Certainly. It's like, so innate to how we are raised and how we operate in school. And then when you get to maybe, like, your early 20s or mid 20s, you just stop reading aloud and it becomes a solitary act. And so I got really excited about this idea of, like, what if we what if we did reading retreats, but we actually read the book aloud to each other. And I've always been a big restaurant and wine person, so doing the book themed dinners and wine and those elements were always part of the, like, very first idea. So that all happened before covid, I was super excited about doing it, and then covid, and so I was like, okay, not the time to get 15 strangers to go in a house together. So for, literally, for almost five years, I just, like, took notes in my phone, in my notes app, someone would bring something up about the literary world or a fun name for something, and it was honestly one of those things that I kind of always thought would just live in the Notes app. And then the summer of 2023 I left my agency job in anticipation of getting a client side job that ultimately fell through. And so I took a few months spent some time with my family over the summer, and I was like, Okay, do I want to go back to go back to agency, another agency gig? Do I want to try something else? And I was like, if there was ever a moment in time to give this idea a go, it's now. And booktok had already blown up by that point over, you know, covid. And so it was like, end of 2023, I decided to start working on it. Launched the brand last March, on Instagram, and all those things. And had the first retreat in April, and now this past weekend, we just hosted our 17th retreat.

Traci Thomas 10:04

Wow, that's so amazing. Yeah, okay, you've sort of glossed over this part, but to me, when I'm watching on the internet, because I watch all the retreats on social media like a real stalker. I've seen a lot of reading retreats. I have never once in my life wanted to go on a reading retreat. I famously also have never once wanted to join a book club. The only I've been part of two book clubs in my entire life. One is the stacks book club, of which I am in charge and have ultimate control over what books we pick, right? Like, it's like the most dictatorship style book club ever. I also do have to read all of the books, to be fair, but it's the only book club ever been a part of, and the other one is one of my best friends from New York, Sam, who did the show years and years ago. He and I had a book club. It was just the two of us, and we would agree to read a book only when we wanted to, and then meet at Chipotle in New York City to discuss. It was totally it was, again, very like, we're only doing it if we both want to read it. There was no, you know, deviled eggs. There was no like, random person who never read like, it was like, once we'd finished, we'd be like, Okay, we've both finished. I'll see you on Wednesday at Chipotle in Midtown. So I've never wanted to be part of a book club. I've never wanted to do a reading retreat. They always look horrible to me. No offense to people who make them. They just, it's just not my vibe, like it just looks like I don't want to be there. But one of the things that your retreat has, besides amazing locations that are like so picturesque, is the food and the wine situation. So can you just explain to people? Because I think I wasn't sure about you. Then I saw the food and wine, and I was like, Sign me up.

Speaker 1 11:46

Absolutely. It's a very I'm the kind of person who, like, really sweats the details when I go to an event, or, like, really pay attention to all the details. Yeah. So I just built the type of weekend experience that I would want to have. And so for food and food and beverage, there's always a featured guest chef on every retreat, and we partner with them in advance to curate custom dinner menus that are themed to the book that we're reading. So we take quotes from the book where maybe they mentioned, like a meatball sub or a head of lettuce, and we like, turn those into creations on the plate, and we have two book themed dinners for the weekend retreats. And we also do curated wine pairing for the whole weekend. So we work with a featured wine partner, sometimes a sommelier, a cool sommelier in New York, or someone who owns a wine shop in New York, and I partner with them to basically build the full wine program. There's usually like 12 different wines that we get to taste over the course of the weekend. We also have non alcoholic options, really cool, new space that I'm obsessed with now, but it's all very curated food and wine options, and it's so fun for me because I've I worked in catering in like, high school, but I've never worked in food service, but I've always, like, idolized being in restaurants and talk I could talk forever about that, but it's so fun for me to get to collaborate with chefs and be creative with them, and feel like I get to have my fingerprints on the menu a little bit. And the chefs absolutely love it, because core to creativity, like having structure enables you to be more creative. And so they love getting sometimes the chef read reads the book in full. Sometimes they don't, because they don't have time, but I brief them in with, like, a whole document that has, here's this ingredient on page 16. Here's the quote that goes with it. Whenever I read a book. Now I'm tabbing every time there's a food reference or wine or anything, so that I can go and produce this sort of like brief and then I throw in some thought starters. But the chefs love it, because they get to step outside of what they typically cook, but then also put their own unique flavors and imprint onto the food. So maybe there's a dish that's referenced that's Italian dish, like pasta dish, for example, but they're a Chinese, American chef, and they they do a riff on that dish that they would do, you know, at their restaurant, or, you know, the way that they would cook it. And so it's always so fun for me to see the fusion of that, like the inspiration from the author in the book, and then also the chef's own inspiration, and how those things sort of fuse on the plate.

Traci Thomas 14:09

It's so cool. Okay, let's talk about the books you read for Page Break. Okay, there are some rules, or there's some guidelines, and then there's also one major rule, because you've got to read the whole book mostly out loud. It's like 70% you read out loud.

Speaker 1 14:27

Yeah, 80%. Last retreat, we just had one session where we read on our own, independently

Traci Thomas 14:31

So sometimes, like during the retreat, you're like, Okay, sick of you guys go to your room and read 50 pages.

Speaker 1 14:35

I usually do it first thing on Saturday morning. So we arrive on Friday, Saturday morning, like people are still kind of waking up, and we have like, a short amount of pages to read, like 30 pages, and I do that so that by that time, we're already settled into it. But it's also just nice to get some, like, alone time with the book and the author, just so you can kind of like, digest it in your own way. Yeah, but yeah. Beyond that, we read the entire book, cover to cover, no homework. I have a strict no homework policy. I'll never read a book on Page Break, where I have to assign reading in advance and which makes it hard, right? Like, sometimes there's a 350 page book that I would love to read on page break, but it's just not going to be a good experience

Traci Thomas 15:00

That's your main rule. It's got to be under 300 right?

Mikey Friedman 15:07

Yeah, yeah, not all pages are created equal. I've learned, but yeah.

Traci Thomas 15:07

And then what else are you prioritizing with the books? How are you deciding? What are you looking at?

Mikey Friedman 14:37

Yeah, prioritizing debut authors, queer authors, diverse authors, underrepresented authors. It's fun to work with or feature authors that are based in New York, because I also do a lot of local programming in the city, and so it's fun to feel like they can be like part of the community with us and come to reunion events that I throw, or my reading series, which we could, I could tell you more about too and it's also good. Like I invite, I always invite the authors to do a Q&A with us at the retreat. I'm proud to say so far, I'm 17 for 17 on author participation, which is so fun. They don't always come in person if they're not available or in town, but sometimes we'll do zoom. So it's fun to work with, like, up and coming New York based authors that might want to come and hang out with us.

Traci Thomas 16:12

And they're new books. It's all new books.

Mikey Friedman 16:14

Oh yeah, all new books. Contemporary literary fiction should have probably said that first. That's like, the sweet spot. I purposely choose fiction because I don't, I know you're a big non nonfiction girl

Traci Thomas 16:25

I am, so watch what you say.

Mikey Friedman 16:26

But I think my main thing with Page Break is I like that everyone comes in on like, equal plane of like, not knowing that much about the book, and I haven't, they haven't read it yet. So that's one of the reasons I choose new books, and it's also one of the reasons I choose fiction, because if we choose something that's maybe more subject based or topical, I think some people might be able to be like, Well, I actually studied this

Traci Thomas 16:47

Then you get assholes. And nobody wants an asshole on a reading retreat.

Mikey Friedman 16:51

Exactly like everyone knows nothing except for me, because I've read it, and that creates a good vibe. And I also think contemporary literary fiction just gives a lot of entry points for empathy and for like, seeing yourself in the characters. Any novel, I think can do that if it's written well, certainly like historical or other genre work, but things that are maybe set in a city, or deal with friendship dynamics or creation of art in a modern in the modern day world, or romance or whatever it is like, I think that gives you a lot of ways to empathize. And one of the beautiful parts about Page Break is because we're pausing and discussing as we go. People really open up. And the social science that I talked about earlier a little bit the main benefit of reading aloud together is vulnerability. It's this small act of vulnerability that lets you feel like you can trust the other people in the circle, even if you've never, even if you don't remember their name yet, because you just met a few hours ago, just by them hearing your voice and you hearing their voice, and knowing that it's like that little bit of performance just makes you feel safer once you do it. So then people feel really comfortable opening up about past exes or stuff with their family, or whatever it might be. And so it has this almost like deeper community reading of a topic that invites more interesting conversation in.

Traci Thomas 18:00

I'm gonna ask a question for people at home listening who are maybe interested in going on a retreat but are scared to read aloud. How long do you have to read out loud?

Mikey Friedman 18:19

Yep, so there's usually 15 or 16 people. So it's pretty intimate circle. We go around the circle and read two pages at a time, the left side and the right side, and then we turn the page we trade, you know, it goes on to the next person. I will also say this is the first rule of Page Break that I always set up every retreat with, is everything is optional. So the entire retreat. If you want to skip a session to call your mother or take a nap, like, this is your weekend, I would say this is your weekend. Got it? You're you're paying to be here. So it's definitely, it's important to me to make it not feel like school. I think when people think here of like reading aloud together, they're like, oh, like, I got called on by the teacher, and now I'm be like, embarrassed, but I do everything in my power to not have it feel that way, and reading aloud is part of that is also optional. So you could just say pass, I've had people come and be like, I'm not going to read aloud at first and then change their mind they want to mid way. And I've had the opposite. I've had people like, read aloud at first and be like, okay, that I tried it. That was fun, but I'm just gonna listen. And we're all following along with our own copies

do you read aloud to yourself at home?

No.

Traci Thomas 18:38

I'm a big proponent of reading out loud.

Speaker 1 18:38

I should be. That would be good for my brand. I probably should be sometimes, if it's like so I host a reading series called Stage Break. Those are short stories that sometimes, like, when I'm trying to divide up, like the pages on the program that I design, I'll like read it out loud to find natural stopping points, or occasionally, if occasionally, but no, not really. I should do it more.

Traci Thomas 18:38

Well okay, so I have a background in the theater, and I love Shakespeare, and I just taught my first ever Shakespeare class. It ended in October. It was amazing, but what like my first rule of Shakespeare is read it out loud. It is transformative to read it out loud, and I deeply believe that. And when I'm reading a book like we just read Frankenstein last month for book club, and the text is sort of dense, and at the beginning I was really struggling, and I was like, I cannot get into this. And I was like, Oh, I know what to do. Read it out loud. And I read the first, like, 30 pages out loud to myself in my home, like, fully out loud, not not like whisper, but like I fully was like, and then he went to the store, and it is transformative to me. I feel like people are not reading out loud to themselves enough in the world. I think I got more into it also because I have small kids, and so I read out loud to them, totally watching them listen. It makes me listen to the stories more. If I were reading it on the pages should be like, Oh, the dog went to the store. The dog, yes, the dog did that. But when you have to be like, The dog went to the store and got a bone,

Speaker 1 21:07

Exactly, it forces you to slow down, which I think is like, we're often skimming when we don't mean to. And it also makes you really appreciate the like, rhythm of the sentences and how they fit together, which, like, that's, I think, one of the strengths of a lot of writers that I really love, like how the different sentences flow into each other. It has, like, a nice rhythm to it, which you don't always get when you're just scanning with your eyes. And I always read the book in advance quietly, you know, not allowed, and then we go on the retreat. We read the I read the same book aloud again, and I'm like, I missed, like, so much detail in this book. It's like, kind of freaking me out. I like, completely missed this whole character dynamic, or whatever it is. And on page break, you have 15 different audiobook narrators sitting in a circle with you, basically. And the other thing about the experience, from like, a comprehension standpoint, is it's unlike an audio book only, and it's not like reading only, it's actually the two together. So like, you're getting the audio right since, you know, since you're listening, but you're also following along in your own copy. So just creates this really rich, like, close reading of the book. And authors, when they come on Page Break, we do the Q&A, usually after we finish the book, and there are multiple authors always are like, Wow, you guys, like, really read the book. Like, you know, they were like, Yeah, you were, you were in it. Like, you're asking me questions that I haven't even, like, considered because of, like, the level of depth that we're really getting into the pages, and, like, the way things are phrased, and like, the minute, minute details that you don't get when you just do it on your own.

Traci Thomas 22:35

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm, I'm I'm a fan of what you do. I'm a fan of the food, I'm a fan of the reading out loud. And, you know, we connected through Ira very early on. I think maybe you'd only done one retreat, and we, like, got on a zoom, and we chatted, and then we chatted again another time, and I met you in New York in person, and we sort of have been, like, floating this idea of doing a retreat, and I've been like, I want to do this badly. Yeah, so we're gonna do it. We're doing a Stacks Break in January. Should we tell them where we're going? It's your first ever non New York one, because I'm a bitch and I said it's gotta be in California.

Speaker 1 23:17

No, this is like, so bucket list for me. So all 17 retreats have been New York, based in New York State, in the Hudson Valley and Catskills and in the city. So for the first ever non New York trip, we're going to Joshua Tree.

Traci Thomas 23:29

I've never been!

Mikey Friedman 23:30

Oh, really, me neither.

Traci Thomas 23:31

I've been to Palm Springs. I've never actually been there Joshua Tree.

Mikey Friedman 23:34

A special collaboration retreat with Traci Thomas from The Stacks. We're co curating, co hosting the weekend together. It's gonna be so major.

Traci Thomas 23:41

So we're giving you guys the scoop. We haven't picked our book yet, right? We're not telling you any details yet. That is coming later in November, but if you want to do this, there's only like 15 spots, so just mark your calendar for late January. Put some funds aside. It's gonna be really good. I'm so excited. Like, truly, I've never been like, I said I don't want to go on a reading retreat. I don't want to be in a book club. And yet, here I am, like, so gassed up this.

Speaker 1 24:14

And Joshua Tree is, like, the perfect kind of like people so often say, like, going on Page Break is feels sort of like summer camp. Like it has a sort of, like, magical, like, joyful energy to it. And I feel like Joshua Tree has that kind of, like inherent mystical desert vibe, and it's just gonna be so fun to be out there

Traci Thomas 24:30

It gets cold at night in Joshua Tree, but then it's, like, warm in the daytime. I'm like, it's gonna be perfect.

Speaker 1 24:37

And I mean, we we do this on every retreat we usually do like yoga and maybe a hike in the woods in New York State, but what an amazing backdrop at Joshua Tree for us to explore

Traci Thomas 24:47

Who leads the yoga?

Mikey Friedman 24:49

Either a local instructor from upstate or sometimes. This past weekend, I had a guest who is a friend, a friend of a friend, who came on the retreat, and he's also yoga instructor. So I just had him lead us, which is so fun.

Traci Thomas 25:02

Yeah, I love it. Okay, okay, before we move off Page Break, because we've got to get to your taste in books and everything. This is just a hypothetical. If you could have your dream Page Break anywhere in the world, any book, any chef, any like you get to decide what would you create, and you don't even have to stick to a new book. It could be like an older thing that you know, like, you know, you can have a little latitude, because you might, you know

Speaker 1 25:35

Well, I've certainly always fantasized about doing like a destination Page Break, which is kind of what we're doing, yeah, but the real fantasy is, and this will hopefully happen one day, but like doing Page Break trip, like travel company type trips, so got it, we would go to Rome, let's say for six nights, and it would be a comparative literature experience. So we'd go to Rome. We'd read a book set in Rome in 1929 and discuss it together. We'd eat at amazing restaurants in Rome and have the chefs do the book themed dinners. And like, move our way through Rome reading a book. And then the second half of the trip we'd stay in Rome, but we read a book set in, like, 2024 also set in Rome, and we sort of like talk about the difference of place and difference of time. And like, do comparative literature on the go, which I think is, like, such a cool idea. Obviously, it's, like, a lot more complicated logistically

Traci Thomas 26:29

That'll be our next Stacks Break. Yeah, I want to do Paris, though, for mine. Though, honestly, I'll go wherever you want me to. I'll just go along for the ride.

Speaker 1 26:41

But, yeah, that's, like, that's definitely the fantasy plan eventually. And like, I also want to do one that is in, like, ski mountain, and we can read some kind of, like, mystery murder ski mountain thing. And I still haven't done a beach one, because, honestly, it's hard to get beach venues in summer, because, yeah, it's like peak season everywhere. But that's gonna happen. We'll read like a steamy beach read,

Traci Thomas 27:05

Well, if you come back to California, you could do beach like in October, because it's literally going to be 90 degrees here tomorrow. And we're recording this in October it's gonna be 90 degrees here today. We're recording this on October 28 it's gonna be 90 degrees all weekend. So you could do beach in October. We're having a 90 degree Halloween. Yeah, gonna be awesome. We love climate change.

Unknown Speaker 27:31

I'm a four season. I need all four seasons.

Traci Thomas 27:34

Oh yeah. I've never heard of a season, except for when I lived in New York. And even then I was like, oh, okay, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk even more about books. Okay, we're back before we get to your taste in books, we're going to do something we call Ask The Stacks where someone is emailed asking for a book recommendation. I'm going to read you their email. I'm going to give them three recommendations. You can give them 123, and for people at home, I am desperate for more, ask the stacks emails. So if you write to ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com tell us what you're looking for. We'll read your emails on air. So this one comes from Lauren, and it says, Love the pod. Obviously had to include that, because I'm a psycho. I was really inspired by the site specific reading you did for your trip to Germany last summer, and I took up the practice for a trip I did last fall, and loved it. So fun. Thank you. I am seeking recommendations for books that are set in specific places and related to its history or culture, fiction or nonfiction recs are welcome. The only genre I don't vibe with is true crime. Obviously, I saved this one for you. Do you want to go first? Or would you like me to go first? And then you can think for a second?

Unknown Speaker 28:56

You go first, I'll think for a second.

Traci Thomas 28:58

Okay, so I picked three different site specific places in the United States. The first one is there, there by Tommy orange. It is about my hometown of Oakland, California, and it's about the indigenous community they're preparing for a powwow. And it's about a few different people. It's like an interconnected, you know, multi perspective book, and I love it because I love Oakland, and I love seeing Oakland in this way. And it felt this book is so Oakland, so there, there is one. Another one that I picked is called The Barn by Wright Thompson. And this is borderline true crime, Lauren, but I'm gonna say it's not true crime. It is about the murder of Emmett Till. And Wright Thompson is from Mississippi, from the area where this happened. And he takes the barn where Emmett Till was killed. And he sort of like goes out and out and out and out around the place, the people, he tells the history of the land, the history of Emmett Till's family, the history of the family of the people who killed him. And it's so beautiful. And it really takes place, like desperately seriously. So if you are interested in, like, getting into a place, this is one of the most place based books I've ever read. And then the last one is one of my favorite books this year, I keep being like, this is not the best book, but it's my favorite book, or one of my favorite books. But the more I think about it, the more I just love it. It's called the gods of New York. It's by Jonathan Mailer. It's about 1986 to 1990 in New York City. It's about Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Spike Lee, Ed Koch. Like it, I think the subtitle is like egotists and scammers, and it's all about New York City in this moment, it's written almost like a tabloid. He's sort of, he's not judgy, but he's really got a point of view about everybody. I freaking love this book. It talks about all the new yorkiest New York things. It makes New York City in 2025 make more sense. It makes Donald Trump in 2025 make more sense. It's just a wild ride. It is so much fun. If you're going to New York, you should read this book, because, like, you'll have a better time in New York. So those are my three recs. Mikey, what do you got?

Speaker 1 31:16

I know I was trying to think of things that are in New York based, because I was like, I don't know. That doesn't feel like a specific enough place, because that's like my whole universe. But we read there are reasons for this by Nini burnt on one of our retreats from tin house, and it's set in Denver, in the not so distant future. So Lauren, if you like, like sort of slightly dystopian climate fiction, a little bit very we devoured the book. It's, I think it's really underrated, and it gives an interesting look at Denver in the future. A little depressing, maybe, but

Mikey Friedman 31:27

I love that. Did you read tilt? It's also climate fiction set in Portland. I think I haven't read it yet. It's teeny, tiny, though it would actually probably be a good book for the retreat.

Speaker 2 31:53

Yeah, I've actually never been to Portland. Isn't that crazy? Oh yeah, I recognize the cover. Nice.

Traci Thomas 32:07

Uh, anyways, maybe read tilt also, Lauren, I don't know. All right, Lauren, if you read any of those books, let us know. Everyone else, please, please, please, email ask the stacks at the stacks podcast.com, for your question, so we can recommend books to you. All right, now it's your turn, Mikey, you're in the hot seat. Two books you love, one book you hate

Speaker 1 32:28

Books I love. one book that always has a special place in my heart, because was the first book that we did a test page break with before I even launched just like with me and a few of my friends sitting in living room Open Throat by Henry Hoke, a very slim book about a queer mountain lion that lives in LA, inspired by the true story of the mountain lion that was like hanging out in LA.

Traci Thomas 32:53

P 22

Mikey Friedman 32:54

Yes, thank you. P 22. I think earlier, I think earlier, when I was describing the book, I called him the like KN95

Traci Thomas 33:03

The mask. My library card has that mountain lion on it, because when he died, the LA Public Library released Special Edition library cards. And I went back and I was like, turning in this basic ass card to get my P-22

Speaker 1 33:21

It's brilliant. It's such a distinct voice. I also love when authors play with form on the page, and it's like, really creatively done. And Henry Hoke's coming out with a new book I think next year.

Traci Thomas 33:28

At FSG, again with, with Jackson?

Mikey Friedman 33:32

Yeah, I think so Jackson.

Traci Thomas 33:34

His name is Jackson Howard, and he's up and coming. He's like, this young editor at FSG, and he is just like, killer

Mikey Friedman 33:41

Every single, every single title he puts out, I try to read or I absolutely love.

Traci Thomas 33:46

It's, it's an unreal okay, what's another book you love?

Unknown Speaker 33:49

How to write an autobiographical novel by Alexander Chee.

Traci Thomas 33:52

We've done that here for a book club.

Mikey Friedman 33:54

I love that book. I've been handing it out to friends recently. Just like my friends come to my apartment. I'm just like, grab books from my stacks, because I have so many, and it's been making its circle, making its way around my circles, and everyone is reminding me through their review how amazing that book is. And like, yeah, she is an amazing writer, and a book that I hate Harry Potter.

Traci Thomas 34:18

We love to hear it. I've never read it. I've never read a single Harry Potter.

Mikey Friedman 34:22

Oh, good. Yeah, that gross TERF witch.

Traci Thomas 34:27

I feel like we need someone to write the like fan or like anti fan fiction about her, like that, she is the evil witch at the center of, like, I don't know Harry Potter, so like, a wizard, no same witch, do wizards have witches are wizards, witches.

Mikey Friedman 34:49

I don't know. Fantasy is not my bag. I mean, like that was like, I never like Harry Potter, just in general, because it's like, not my thing. And then, of course, just her politics make it even easier to not like.

Traci Thomas 35:00

yeah, yeah. Okay, good writers out there, you have to be really good. I want like the best take down fan anti fanfic of the wizard Witch of the West. Okay, what about what kind of reader Are you like? How much are you reading? Are you reading every day? Or are you sitting down in one day and like, just knocking out a book and then not reading again for a week?

Speaker 1 35:26

I'm reading mostly every day, and I do almost all my reading on the subway.

Traci Thomas 35:33

Okay, physical book, audio book, kindle?

Mikey Friedman 35:35

Physical book, ideally paperback arc. I basically read arcs now that dominate my reading schedule, because I'm always looking for my next retreat pick, which is fun. I wish I had more time to read things that have been on my I mean, everyone has that feeling, but more things are like on my TBR forever. But I also, I don't know I like having the new thing, I can admit that, yeah, and so yeah, ideally, paperback arc on the subway makes it easy to just like, throw on my bag and I have Kindle for Net Galley and stuff if I need to, like, if I, like, really want to check the book out. I don't have the physical copy yet, and I don't. I rarely do audio books, but sometimes I will do, like, tandem reading, either at the same time, or I'll, like, trade off, like, I'll, you know, start with reading it, and then I'll pick it up with audio book and then go back.

Traci Thomas 36:21

Okay, what's the last just like, absolutely great book you've read?

Mikey Friedman 36:28

Audition by Katie Kitamura. That book's a banger.

Traci Thomas 36:33

I need to read it. I've been putting off reading it. I didn't think I was gonna read it, and now I'm just feeling like I'm missing out on something.

Speaker 1 36:41

Yeah, now I need to read Intimacies. I haven't read that.

Traci Thomas 36:42

I do have that one. Okay, I've not read it. I've never read anything by her.

Speaker 1 36:46

I think audition is so brilliant because it takes a really simple idea and its execution is like, so it's, it's like, moving, it's like, it really makes you feel about it. You're like a scene of a horror movie, almost like the anticipation of what's about to happen is really intense, but the idea on its surface is quite simple. Just like, how do we perform for each other and, like, the different roles that we play?

Traci Thomas 37:09

I need to read it. I gotta do it. Okay, I gotta bite the bullet.

Mikey Friedman 37:12

She's so chic too. I love her.

Traci Thomas 37:14

Yeah she's so she got, like, dragged because she said she used, like, really expensive, like, lip gloss, like, not relatable, yeah, okay, we need fancy, unrelatable authors.

Mikey Friedman 37:25

I'm like, it's working.

Traci Thomas 37:28

She's like, yes, we chic is in, as I say, in my frumpy shacket, yeah. So chic is so in. What about what are you reading right now? And do you read multiple books at a time?

Speaker 1 37:46

I do. I actually, I, I do not. I like, have no qualms about not finishing books. Okay, so I'm usually, like, super sampling, like, two or three books at a time, usually a two and kind of going back and forth and seeing how I feel, and getting to, like, you know, 50 to 70 pages into a book before I decide if I'm going to finish it. Yeah, right now I'm reading eradication by Jonathan miles, which is an arc potentially for our January.

Traci Thomas 38:14

I don't even know about this.

Mikey Friedman 38:16

The concept is interesting. A man sent to a desert island to eradicate invasive species of goats. It seems really eerie and interesting. And then I'm also trying like little chapters of love and exile by Sean Fay, because I feel like I have a lot to learn about love and relationships and I hope this book will teach me.

Traci Thomas 38:48

Okay it's a self help moment.

Mikey Friedman 38:48

It's a self help moment for me.

Traci Thomas 38:51

Self help literary nonfiction

Mikey Friedman 38:54

I like, like, books like that that are, like essays or like little like short chapters. Especially for nonfiction, I can just kind of like, throw it in my bag, read on the train, whatever.

Traci Thomas 39:03

Yeah, yeah, totally. How do you pick your next book? Or, like, where are you sourcing books from?

Mikey Friedman 39:09

Yeah. I mean, it's a mix of publishers getting their catalogs and sort of like, seeing what's coming out in the future. I stock like, all the lists that are published, like, pre there's like, preview guides and things like that. And then I'm on Tiktok, which, like, is maybe not as I honestly feel like I'm, I'm maybe the best resource for up and coming arc books, because, like, I'm publishing retreat radar every three months, where I, like, publish, like the 20 books that are coming out. But it's like, it's all, it's not from one direct source. It's all, like, different things, like, cobbled together and my best resource, I mean, like, for my type of books, not for all types of books.

Traci Thomas 39:47

Right, right, yeah, yeah. You know, I love, I love a preview list.

Mikey Friedman 39:51

Yeah, how do you do it?

Traci Thomas 39:54

I do the same thing as you I get the catalogs from the publishers. I comb through all of them if they send. Them to me, I comb through them. I prefer that than, like, the random pitch emails, because I just some. Some days I'm just like, I don't want to read this. I'm throwing it in a folder. Yeah, catalogs. I like, sit down, I get my tea, and I go through and I add them to my spread. I have a spreadsheet. And then, you know, when The Millions list comes out, or the lit hub list comes out, or R O Kwon used to write, like, a great list of women and non binary authors, books coming out, like, for the following year. I look at that what the New York Times is talking about. I'll listen to their podcast, you know, like, and I'm also on Instagram, yeah? And I'm constantly just, like, looking at things. When books show up at my house, you know, I'm touching them, I'm looking at them, I'm thinking about them, yeah? And then I make my own lists like that. I publish on my sub stack every last Friday, or, like, the last Friday before pub day. I go through and I write a roundup of like, this is what's coming in the next month. Here are the things I'm excited about. I try to keep it really short, and then I also will, like, highlight anything that I've already started or read. Like, being like, I'm excited about this, and I've actually read into it, but there's no rhyme or reason. And then sometimes I'm just like, I want to read this book.

Mikey Friedman 41:05

Yeah, totally. I'm like, Oh, right. I'm it's still, yeah, it's still kind of a mystery to me how I choose what to actually read next. Like, I don't have a ranked list or anything. I'm just kind of, like, looking around my apartment being like, maybe that is what I'll take with me. You know, it's, like, very intuitive in that way.

Traci Thomas 41:21

Okay, what's a book that you love to recommend to other people?

Speaker 1 41:26

I think of Beautyland by Marie Helene Bertino. I've never, I've yet to recommend that to someone who didn't text me, like a month later and be like, I absolutely love this book.

Traci Thomas 41:43

You haven't recommended it to me, thankfully, because I won't like it.

Mikey Friedman 41:43

Okay, why do you say that?

Traci Thomas 41:40

I don't know. I've just heard too much about it. I think it's not for me. I think it was too slow for me. I know the ending is it has a good payoff, but I don't think I'll be able to get through it.

Mikey Friedman 41:45

Yeah, it's touching and creative.

Traci Thomas 41:50

Have you met me, do I seem touching and creative to you? I'm so far from touching. I mean, that's the thing about books, is, like, especially for me, and I'm sure you feel this way, like, when you read as much as much as I read, I'm just really good at, like, fine tuning my taste, and sometimes I might decide I'm not gonna like something, and then I end up reading it, and I do like it, but most of the time I can tell before I go in, and I've heard this book is amazing, and a lot of people I know love it. I just think it's too, Everything I've been told it makes it sound like it's too slow for me, and like to o just like vibes.

Mikey Friedman 42:24

Yeah, that's fair

Traci Thomas 42:27

But I've recommended it to people who are like, yeah, I like vibes. And I'm like, Oh, you might like beautyland, a book I've never read

Speaker 1 42:34

Right, it seems like you might like this. Yeah that's like, the art of recommendation, for sure. I mean, I'm doing that too. Totally. I haven't read this yet, but you might like it.

Traci Thomas 42:45

I do that all the time. Do you have a favorite bookstore?

Unknown Speaker 42:48

The Bureau of General Services, queer division.

Traci Thomas 42:51

What's that? I've never even heard of that.

Mikey Friedman 42:53

Okay, so inside the center in the West Village, the LGBT Center on the second floor, there's an all queer bookstore. We call it the bureau, full name, Bureau of General Services, queer division, and it's adorable. It's run by this couple. It's been in in service of like, 15 years and or maybe even more. And they host community events and readings, and every single book in the store is queer. And they also have a rotating art exhibit on the walls of the bureau that they like swap out every six months. And I'm actually a volunteer there, because it's all volunteer run. So I will occasionally, I know, well, I will occasionally pick up random shit there. I went to a I went to an author talk there. And Greg, you know, co owner of the Bureau, like, gives this spiel, and it's like, oh, by the way, we're a volunteer run bookstore. So if anyone in the audience wants to, like, get involved and help out and pick up shifts, let us know. And I was, you know, just getting Page Break off the ground. I was like, what a great place to be hanging out in and like, an amazing queer bookstore, and like, meeting people who come in and just like, getting to spend time around books. So I've been volunteering, volunteering there now for like, over a year, yeah, year and a half.

Traci Thomas 44:02

It's so cool. I've literally never heard of this place.

Mikey Friedman 44:04

Yeah next time you're in New York, we'll go. The owners are so great. I love them. It's so fun to just like, see people coming in from all parts of the world or from the city, and just like having a safe space where they can explore all kinds of queer books, like fiction, non fiction, art books, comics, poetry, everything.

Traci Thomas 44:23

Done. New favorite bookstore. I love it. Okay, what's the last book that you purchased?

Mikey Friedman 44:29

Oh, I purchased unfit by Ariana Harwich.

Traci Thomas 44:33

Is this the parent? The book about being a disabled parent?

Speaker 1 44:36

It's about the mom who, like, steals the twin boys back from her husband and goes on like a crazy road trip. It's a translation.

Traci Thomas 44:42

It's a novel. Yes, sorry, there's, I think there's a book called unfit parent, but I think it's about disability and parenting.

Speaker 1 44:48

Okay, no, not that one. This is, this is a translated novella. And actually, I'm always looking for slim novellas to read on Day Break, because I also host a one day retreat in New York. So I've had good luck with translated fiction. We read boulder by Eva Balthazar and role play by Claire Drummond

Traci Thomas 45:09

Oh my God. Have you read hunchback yet?

Speaker 1 45:11

No I have it, it's so short, it's almost too short.

Traci Thomas 45:14

It's so good.

Mikey Friedman 45:17

Okay, I'm gonna read it.

Traci Thomas 45:18

Just read it. Even if you don't do it for daybreak or anything. Just read it. It is so good.

Speaker 1 45:24

Okay, I'm gonna read it. Yeah, it's on my radar. It seems very depressing?

Traci Thomas 45:29

It's fucked up. I don't think it's depressing. I think it's like, twisted, okay, you know, like, it's like, dark, all right. Oh, I love that book.

Speaker 1 45:38

But, and actually, we just read perfection by Vincenzo la tronico On our last retreat. so I've done a lot of translated novellas now that I think about it.

Traci Thomas 45:47

What's the last book that made you laugh?

Mikey Friedman 45:50

Herculean this past weekend. By Grace Byron. Everyone absolutely loved it. It's a book about the demons that haunt us, and trauma and being trans, and, like, it's horror, using horror and the like demonic devices as a way to sort of explore that. But grace is so it's like in also in a lot of in the first part of the book, like the like, internet girl novel, yeah, and it's so funny, like, Grace's observations about the art world, or, like, the way that people move around New York and like, just like being able to read it in a group format, we were, like, cackling, laughing, yeah, which is just so it's such a treat to get that from a book.

Traci Thomas 46:33

What's the last book where you felt like you learned a lot?

Speaker 1 46:37

Oh in college, I read the life and death of Great American Cities, by Jane Jacobs. Oh, that's like my brainiest book that I love, because I think if I were to go back to school, it'd be for like, Urban Studies, yeah. And like, how cities work. Have you read it?

Traci Thomas 46:52

You do like non fiction!

Speaker 1 46:53

Yeah, I think I do. I need to look at your guide.

Traci Thomas 46:57

I know we should. Maybe we should do non fiction for our thing like essays, personal essays. No, okay, okay, okay, okay, I'll wait. What about a book that brings you joy?

Speaker 1 47:10

Joy? I mean, another funny book we read, worry, by Alexandra Tanner. It's very funny.

Traci Thomas 47:26

Okay. What about a book that you feel proud to have read?

Mikey Friedman 47:32

The power broker, by Rob drew

Traci Thomas 47:34

you did it. I did it. Wow. Another non fiction, another non fiction. I've never done it. I can't do it. I don't think I can do it.

Mikey Friedman 47:43

Yeah, you don't need to.

Traci Thomas 47:46

I feel like I need to as a nonfiction person. I feel like I gotta, like, read it. Yeah, I read executioner's song. That was the massive nonfiction that I opted into a few years ago. I got a wrist injury from reading it. The book is so big, and I was, like, trying to read it in bed. I was like, on a trip, and I was like, my wrist hurts

Speaker 1 48:05

Yeah we need slim paper I'm into slim paperbacks so you can, like, put in your purse.

Traci Thomas 48:10

Yeah, you could read, like, eight page break books for one executioner's song and one power broker. Is there any book that's like, on your bookish bucket list, like a book you're just like, I gotta read this one.

Speaker 1 48:25

It comes to mind because limousine podcast. You know, those the limousine podcast? Okay, let me plug the limousine podcast. They're great Heather, Heather and Leah shout out. They host a reading series in New York, and they have an amazing podcast as well. They did an Anna Karenina book club

Traci Thomas 48:43

We did it as just like a regular book club pick, but I gave people two months to read it instead of one month.

Speaker 1 48:50

Yeah. And honestly, I had no interest in reading it before getting getting glimpses of some of their episodes. Like, I didn't stay stick around for the whole episode, like just hearing them talk about it. I'm like, okay, maybe I need to read that.

Traci Thomas 49:05

It's not bad. It's pretty good, it's pretty good.

Mikey Friedman 49:05

I'm so, I'm so bad at classics, I probably have like two, like two that I've read.

Traci Thomas 49:11

Okay, can I plug a classic that I think you would love? Frankenstein. Frankenstein is a, first of all, it's slim. It's like 200 pages. It is a banger. Okay? I cannot stop thinking about it. I cannot stop talking about I loved Frankenstein. I think you would love it. It's a sad boy novel. It's a little gay. It's actually a little gay

Mikey Friedman 49:34

We love a sad we have a sad little gay novel.

Traci Thomas 49:37

Yeah, it's a sad little gay novel, and it was written by a teenage girl. Do you know that Mary Shelley was like 19 when she wrote it? So it's also like, a little bit like punk rock in some ways, because it's like a teenage girl being like, yeah, it's very emo. I kept texting friends being like, is the monster? Just like, the saddest, sad boy ever. Like, is this just so like. An emo book. And everyone was like, it is and I was like, okay,

Mikey Friedman 50:04

Mary Shelley shopped at hot topic

Traci Thomas 50:09

1,000%, like the saddest girl. Anyways, I think you'd like it. It'll save you 800 pages on Anna Karenina. Well, it's so I think it's way better.

Mikey Friedman 50:19

Okay, love that? Well, we always this is the second year I've done a spooky Halloween retreat. So maybe next October, we'll do Frankenstein.

Traci Thomas 50:27

It's worth it. It is so worth it. I have two more questions for you. One is that if you were a high school teacher, what is the book you would assign in school?

Speaker 1 50:37

I was gonna say The Ethical Slut. I love it. Or Jane Jacobs, I think I don't know that the life and death of Great American Cities. No, that's, oh, that's not a good high school book, yeah, ethical slut.

Traci Thomas 50:49

Ethical slut, yeah. And then last one, if you could require the current president of the United States of America to read one book? What would it be?

Speaker 1 51:00

I can't tell if I would, he would read this and hate it or love it, but I think Rejection by Tony Tulathimutte

Traci Thomas 51:06

Okay, he would read it, and he would hopefully see himself a fucking loser.

Speaker 1 51:06

Yeah, the great, the great incel novel of our time.

Traci Thomas 51:14

Yes exactly. Okay. I love it, everybody. Mikey will be back on Wednesday, November 26. We are discussing We the Animals by Justin Torres. It is his debut novel. It is super slim, party people. It is Page Break material, a teeny, tiny gay book set in upstate New York.

Mikey Friedman 51:33

I'm so excited.

Traci Thomas 51:35

I'm so excited. You've never read any Justin Torres?

Speaker 1 51:35

Never.

Traci Thomas 51:35

Me neither.

Mikey Friedman 51:35

It's like, I've always been like, oh, I need to read blackouts. I need to read we the animals.

Traci Thomas 51:42

Me too. And also not to be, like, not to objectify people, but Justin Torres is so hot. Everybody, go ahead and Google Justin Torres. He is so hot. I've met him, like, twice in person, and I think he's even made hotter because he's chic, and he's one of those people with that, like, really warm light energy where you meet them, and you're like, oh, you're a lovely human, like, he just instantly, you're like, oh, I can see goodness in your spirit. Okay, we're out of here. Mikey, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited about everything you're doing. I'm excited that we're gonna do something together, and I'm excited about reading We the Animals. So this is just it's all excitement.

Speaker 1 52:28

Me too. I'm so glad we get to spend so much time together in the next few months.

Traci Thomas 52:26

Yay! And everyone else, we will see you in The Stacks. Alright y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to Mikey Friedman for joining the podcast. Our book club pick for November is We the Animals by Justin Torres and Mikey will be returning as our guest for that discussion on November 26. If you love the stacks and want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks to join The Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter at Traci thomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to the stacks, wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review for more from the stacks. You can follow us on social media at the stacks pod, on Instagram, threads and Tiktok, and now we're on YouTube, and you can check out our website at the stacks podcast.com this episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Sahara Clement. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight, and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Stacks Assistant
Next

Ep. 396 Frankenstein by Mary Shelley — The Stacks Book Club (Angela Flournoy)